leaking Dishwasher supply connection at 90 angle pipe threads

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by AKRBT, Sep 22, 2008.

  1. AKRBT

    AKRBT New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Alaska
    I installed a Bosch dishwasher today- Now I have a very slight drip coming out of the pipe threads/teflon tape of the 90 degree supply angle into the DW's inlet. This dishwasher's threaded inlet hole sticks out the front, not the bottom, as some other DW's inlets do. See attached images from the manual. The unit is lying on its back when making the supply line connection, so you have wrench space. The instructions had a very specific alignment for the angle connection, so you would then have room to screw on the compression fitting of the supply line. Problem is, with this alignment the angle was not fully tightened-it was wrench tight, but I could easily turn it another half turn (which would have then put the compression leg facing the floor= bad). So I backed it out and re-taped it and tried starting at a different point, but the threading only allowed it in where it wanted to. So I tightened it pretty much to their alignment point, just a little past, and then fully installed the DW (which is the only way to test it with their electrical installation method).

    Once I saw the drip I used a small crescent wrench and could barely turn it another 1/4 turn in the space available now that the DW is sitting normal..

    it still has the drip.

    Did I: a) overtighten and strip something- and what does this mean for teh usability of the female inlet hole ; or b) did I not tighten it enough- which is a problem because like I said you cannot keep turning it without screwing up the compression connection clearances?

    If I cannot fix it will a plumber be able to get the angle off and redo it without pulling out the DW? The cheaper option is living with a damp paper towel drip pad, and hope the drip goes away as small drips sometimes seem to do on a new supply connection. Why don't they just have the angle factory installed so you only have to screw on the supply line compression fitting??!! Thank you, AKRBT

    Attached Files:

  2. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    My guess is you could have made another full turn, but somebody will probably have to pull the DW to find out.
  3. AKRBT

    AKRBT New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Alaska
    Thank you- I can see about half the angle's threads and tape- but because they so adamantly said to not overtighten I figured I was already pushing it.. I am quite bummed if you are correct-Not the end of the world but one less day of fun in my time on it..
  4. kingsotall

    kingsotall Plunger/TurdPuncher

    Pull the DW, buy some Rectorseal T-2 pipe dope, take all the old tef tape off the 90, redo the tef tape, 3-4 turns, then add the pipe dope sparingly, this is a small connection. And just turn til it feels good n tight allowing for the supply line to be angled down the channel they provide. I have installed many of these units as well as LG who has the exact same set up and have never had a problem with tightening while still keeping the 90 in the angle it needs to be. Not to put the plumbers here down but you might want an appliance installation company to install this as a last ditch effort because they do it all day long. Some plumbers can't be bothered with DW's much less the peculiar installation requirements some of them have.
  5. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    This is what I do! Kind of a belt and suspenders thing. It works!
  6. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Personally, I never followed the seemingly common recommendation to use "4 or 5" wraps of tape. I believe that 1½ to 2 turns it what you need. Too much tape is too thick, and interferes with threads. I have used tape alone, tape + dope, and dope alone. The latter is probably what I do most often, with good results.

    If you are using an 8" crescent wrench, or a 6" box wrench, you are unlikely to overtighten, unless you have forearms like Mighty Joe Young. And as I always say, if you are actually old enough to know Mighty Joe Young, you shouldn'e be taking on jobs like this!
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,650
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    pipe

    A Crescent wrench turned with a screwdriver will rotate the fitting. One of our plumbers installed a dishwasher, decades ago. When leak appeared in the basement ceiling, he "repaired" the leak on the water line. A few years later it started leaking in the basement again. When I checked it, his repair was a fairly large steel pan under the drip. The water would evaporate from the dishwasher's heat during use. Because it was a steel pan, instead of aluminum, it rusted out and started leaking again. That sounds like the kind of repair you are considering, except there is no room for a big pan.
  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,012
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You can't leave it leaking.

    Unless you have cross threaded it, it just needs to be tightened more.
  9. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    If I have to pull it, I think I'd swap the line out for a ss braided one.
  10. Wrex

    Wrex New Member

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Ditch the teflon tape and get some pipe dope as others said apply it to the threads and reinstall it.

    I'm suprised that the leak isn't coming from the compression fitting especially if you reused the old ferrule :D.
  11. AKRBT

    AKRBT New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Alaska
    Thank you all-
    Terry sounds adament, but I so do not want to redo what I spent a Sunday doing.
    The leak is literally one drip an hour- I ran a second wash with a few paper towels folded up underenath and it was damp, but just through one or two layers, and that was overnight. And this is on tile. And the house (and especially the kitchen) which we bought two years ago, and will sell in a few years, is no class A. \
    Perhaps I will try tighening with the smallest wrench that will fit or the screwdriver/cresent combo somebody mentioned. However now I risk damaging the threads more if they are already damaged and I keep overtightening. Bosch should not say "DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN" and give a specific alignment- the two instructions seem completely incompatible??!!.

    It also sounds like somebody could make a lot of money with an adjustable-angle, special socket that fit these angles from head on-- both for dishwashers and stoves.

    lastly- It is a SS braided line- I also never removed the compression connenction, but I have had to redo those before and have never replaced the ferrule in a off-the-shelf supply line compression fitting. So if I do have to remove the supply line and redo the whole she-bang, you reccomend replacing the compression ferrules at both the dishwasher inlet angle in question, AND at the shut off valve?
    That is news to me.. so if you get a leak when testing any compression valve you should replace teh ferrule or the line/fitting altogether?

    Thank you,
    AKRBT
  12. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,012
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    What?
    One thing to remember about ferrules and compression fittings, and braided supply lines.

    NO TEFLON TAPE

    You can use Teflon tape on tapered threads, like the one for the 90 el that threads to the dishwasher. But not on the side that takes the supply.

    I prefer to use pipe dope on the tapered thread side of the dishwasher 90. On the compression side, I don't use anything.
    However, if it's the compression thread that is leaking, I have cheated maybe twice and unthreaded the nut and put just the smallest amount on the outside threads and ran the nut back. About twice in the last ten years is pretty good though.
  13. AKRBT

    AKRBT New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Alaska
    here's my final rant on Bosch and my installation trial

    I did not remove and replace the compression fittiing on this project- the 90 was 1st put in-place (incorrectly, it seems), then I screwed the compression fitting on (without tape thread) and then next the installation manual instructed me to tilt the DW back up, slide the unit in place with the electrical cable threaded underneath just so, then make my electrical connections.. so testing could ONLY happen then, at least according to Bosch.. obviously I could have rigged up an electrical connection temporarily- but I still would have had to tilt the unit upright to test it. Then, if it leaked, I would have had to lay it back on its back, & the water that I tested it with that would be sitting in the drain loop and in the pump, would then have spilled all over the place.

    For all the "german know-how" BS it is a very bad design. Why not a factory attached elbow (therefore factory warrantied like every other internal connection) with the compression fitting easily wrench accesible when installed- OR an easily wrench accessible inlet connection when installed AND a an easily accesiible supply line fitting. It seems what ever the dishwasher or stove brand, with the 90 degree compression/pipe thread fitting you can usually only have easy access for either the outlet hole threaded connection OR the compression connection , but seldom both, once the unit is in place and upright at least. I P'ss me off to no end that they make this supply connection so difficult to redo or adjust in place. Keeping appliance installers happy I guess?!

    The dish trays are also smaller than my old (20 year old) dishwasher, they have less flexibility, the electronic controls have no more extras than the Kenmore's old manual controls, and it is only marginally quieter during rinse (although it is top rated for mid-priced sound).

    Bosch also slapped a non-easily removed, bright colored ad sticker for Jet Dry and some detergent brand who tehy reccomend (i.e who paid them the most) - right on the inside edge of my door- This in addition to teh free samplesl included with the dishwasher internally. This is a $700 dishwasher that is suppossed to be "sleek". I don't want their F'in advertising- and I could not see it when I inspected the box at pick-up, and it was not on the display model...otherwise I would have said NO thank you unless that sticker is gone without a trace.

    Finally they say you must use Jet Dry (or equivalent) -- so they have gotten their "energy star" by deleting drying heat and they want me to drink their required chemcical coatings in order to get dry dishes. My old dishwasher dryed fine without spotting, and that without using the heater element- just fan drying! I personally will never buy another Bosch and plan on starting a little negative review campaign against them.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2008
  14. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,650
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Dw

    Methinks you made the installation a LOT more difficult than it had to be, possibly because you made the mistake of reading the instructions written by some engineer who NEVER had to install one anywhere but in a laboratory with his ideal conditions.
  15. Wrex

    Wrex New Member

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Hj is right you followed the instructions too precisely.

    I had to install my new dishwasher just this June I coated the tapered threads on the elbow with white non toxic (potable water safe) thread sealant.

    Screwed it on by hand and snugged it up with a box end wrench that's all no muscle needed.

    I do get what you mean though it was awfully tight under there and I had to install the elbow with the dishwasher on it's back. A box end wrench makes it easier if you are installing the supply line while the dishwasher is in place. I had to since I had copper tubing under there and very little slack.

    I'm right at home here though I'm used to loosening bolts in cramped engine compartments without seeing what I'm doing :D.

    That's the price we pay though manufacturers are making the dishwashers larger inside the footprint can't change so they have to take that extra real estate from somewhere so they are taking the extra space from underneath.

    As for the sticker remove as much of it as you can (including any traces of the paper) with your fingernail then remove the sticky adhesive residue with Goo Gone or an equivalent adhesive remover. That stuff is magic it has got me out of alot of sticky sticker situations :).
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2008
  16. kingsotall

    kingsotall Plunger/TurdPuncher

    Would've took all of five minutes to pull the DW and redo the whole 90. :rolleyes:
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