Las Vegas Water Softener Selection

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by John Vegas, May 23, 2012.

  1. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,050
    Location:
    Maine
    I'll be crucified for this but I hate plugging water filtration equipment into GFCI breakers or outlets. The damn things trip and screw up the timer and it turns into a service problem which turns into having to get an electrician in which turns into a pissed off customer. Still, code is code is code is code.................................
  2. John Vegas

    John Vegas New Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Oh yeah, If I can fix this, i am removing the GFI totally. To hell with the code, I can't have this damned softener regenerating every night.

    I probably need to buy some load testing device or something to test some outlets. I think this house was wired incorrectly because this is not the only GFCI issue I have had. That, or DR Horton used el cheapo GFCI outlets and they are starting to malfunction, especially since the garage here gets to about 125 degrees in the summer! :mad:
  3. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,789
    Location:
    Ontario California
    I would update the GFCI outlets to new ones. 7018k15p1l.png

    Test every plug in the house with this to make sure they are wired correctly.

    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?45302-Prototype-system&highlight=prototype
    If you look at this thread, the picture shows every outlet is outdoor protected as well as being GFCI, never a problem here. Anytime I have an outlet near water (execpt in the kitchen on the counter, I put one of these covers on.


    sorry about posting the cheat sheet, I hit the wrong file.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 30, 2012
  4. John Vegas

    John Vegas New Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I put a new GFCI outlet in, but I didn't plug the softener back in since I know that I'll have softwater for several days. I wanted to see if something else might cause the GFCI to trip (I only have an irrigation time on the circuit and I ran that through its motions turning on all the valves and no tripping).

    I assume I am not doing any damage to the softener if I leave it turned off and NOT in bypass mode?

    JS
  5. John Vegas

    John Vegas New Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I hope I have not done any damage as I just turned it back on today to regenerate.

    JS
  6. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,050
    Location:
    Maine
    It should be fine. Re-set the programming if needed
  7. John Vegas

    John Vegas New Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I thought I had a Platinum Plus, which is clearly the Fleck 7000SXT valve. The valve diagrams are exactly the same (as posted on the Fleck and Culligan websites). I now realize that I have a Platinum series valve. Culligan has apparently not posted a valve diagram for this model, which is extremely frustrating!

    I have reviewed the cut sheets for nearly every valve made (Fleck, Autotrol and Clack) and none of them seem to match the look of this Culligan valve.

    Does anyone have any idea who manufacturers this valve? I guess it is possible the Culligan made a special valve, but at least the internal parts are usually consistent (especially since the Platinum Plus is clearly the 7000SXT.

    Thanks, JS
  8. John Vegas

    John Vegas New Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    So I have been living with this dripping to drain water softener for months now, LOL, but it is getting worse. Can anyone identify this valve or any suggestions on how to get to the seal pack? I poked and prodded the thing by removing some screws and the plate on the left (which seems to give access to the OTHER end of the seal pack assembly. It seems like you need to take off the mechanical contraption on the right to access the correct end of the seal pack, but not sure. Its JUST about time for either a repair man or a new system...

    Thanks, JS Culligan 1.jpg Culligan 3.jpg Culligan 2.jpg
  9. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,789
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Sadly, I vote for a new system. That is definetly a proprietary unit, not the 7000 variant. Your Culligan rep should be able to repair it easily and at a reasonable price. If not, then it is time for a change. (timely, just a couple weeks away, time for a change)
  10. John Vegas

    John Vegas New Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Connecting new system...

    So I am thinking about pulling the trigger on a new 48K Fleck 7000SXT. My only question for now is how would y'all suggest I connect the system? As you can see from the previous pictures, I have those odd flared fitting that connect the existing POS Culligan. I can get the Fleck in just about any size from 3/4 to 1/5" plastic fittings.

    I don't have the tools to solder, and I am hoping to avoid calling in a plumber (although I can pull a favor if I need to). I was thinking it might be best to just cut out the flared fittings (I do have a copper pipe cutter), put on on a push connect fitting to transition from the copper pipe to threaded. I was figuring using a push fitting to go from the 1-inch pipe to 1-inch threads, order the softener with 1-inch threads, and then use flex connectors to basically connect the pipes (inlet and outlet) to the softeners.

    Is it standard to connect softeners with flex connectors rather than hard plumbing like the Culligan (see pics earlier in this thread).

    Thanks all, JS


  11. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I don't know what you are calling flared fittings other than the black plastic nuts that screw onto the back of the valve. They are Culligan parts and are installed on the soldered copper. All brands of valves have their own proprietary plumbing fittings. So you unsolder the copper and solder on the new fittings for your brand and model valve. Or, use brass or plastic push or compression type fittings instead of soldering.

    BTW, you can buy a soldering kit from the big box stores or online for $40-$75. And you get to keep it when finished. You can learn to solder with about 30 minutes of practice. To do that you can find free videos and instructions online.

    Flexible lines like Falcon SS are difficult to get to fit well with your loop plumbing because you can't move it without tearing the wall apart. And they don't hold the softener from being moved if bumped.
  12. John Vegas

    John Vegas New Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Flared Fittings

    What I am calling a flared fitting is the trumpet looking copper thing that was soldered to the 1-inch copper pipe. The black plastic nut you reference is then screwed over the copper "flared" fitting. Maybe I could just line up the new softener and use the existing plastic nut to screw onto the new softener (?). I think the Culligan uses some type of flared plastic fitting in order for the copper flared thing to seat properly. The Culligan has no copper attached to it, only plastic.

    JS


  13. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The metal part soldered onto or otherwise attached to your plumbing and the nut are Culligan parts. All other brands and models of valves will have their own version of those parts.

    The distance between your plumbing ends after removing the Culligan parts will probably not fit another brand and model of valve and have to be 'adjusted'. Also, very possibly their height above the floor will vary from one brand and model of valve to another and that will have to be adjusted too.
  14. John Vegas

    John Vegas New Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Ok, here is a dumb question. How do you "hard pipe" a water softener? It seems like the Flecks come with threaded fitting that are intended to connect a flex line to. My softener is located in an out of the way location and not subject to being bumped, so I was thinking flex lines were ok. If bumping is a problem, I though a pair of earthquake straps for a hot water heater would stabilize it as well. Anyway, thanks all for your help.


  15. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,480
    Location:
    Alaska
    Here is a thought.
    If you are going to try and change out the Culligan valve for a Fleck valve you should take the Culligan valve off first to make sure that the thread count and shape will work for the fleck valve.
    Culligan likes to use a square thread while Fleck uses a pipe thread.
    Also Culligan uses more times than not a brine flow control in the top of the float assembly while fleck has theirs in the line at the valve body.
  16. John Vegas

    John Vegas New Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I intend to buy an entire new system. I don't think any valve will fit a Culligan tank. Anyone want a used Culligan that needs a new seal pack? CHEAP!


    JS


  17. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,789
    Location:
    Ontario California
    That is going to be a tough sale.

    You will do great with a new system, parts availability will be much easier in the future. All of the Fleck valves have solder connectors available. The 5600 style has 3/4" - 1-1/4", the 7000 has 3/4" to 1-1/2" available. You could use the Falcon x John Guest water-heater-flex-fip-ptc-18.jpg with the MIP connectors that are standard on most Fleck systems as well. Good luck!
  18. Gestetner

    Gestetner New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    SoCal
    Unfortunately, I can attest to the fact that Culligan tanks use a different thread than "regular" tanks. I had a Culligan "Fleck" 7000 1 1/4" valve system on a 12x65 Total Home system with 2 cuft resin and 1 cuft carbon. (They told me it is the valve unit used for the Platinum Plus series of softeners.) Long story short, Culligan and I had a severe disagreement and legal frivolity ensued. After resolving that difference of opinion, I replaced my entire system with separate softener and carbon tanks, using a Fleck 7000SXT for the carbon and Fleck 7000XTR for the softener.

    I had attempted to reuse my Culligan valve but my new water guy insisted on using a new tank because he said the labor to clean and refill the old Culligan one would have eaten up any savings. The price was right so I didn't argue. Turns out that the down tube which the Culligan valve uses is a different size and didn't mate up with the one he'd ordered for the new tank. He said he couldn't get the old Culligan tube out so the tank got chewed up getting it out. (Unfortunately, he didn't figure out that the top basket just unscrews and then the tube comes right out. ARGH!)

    My Culligan Fleck valve does not screw onto the top of the tank. Instead, a threaded insert screws into the top of the tank and then the valve sits on that with an o-ring. The insert and the valve then have a collar that clamps around them to hold them together.

    Unfortunately, it was only at this point that my independent water guy goes to put the old valve on and discovers that the Culligan insert has different threads and won't screw into the "industry standard" tank. He said that he contacted his wholesalers and that no one made an insert with industry standard threads to use with the Culligan valve. That required me to spend money on a new valve. Frustrating, but not as bad as it could have been because I got a good price on the new valve, a new warranty, and the availability of replacement parts.

    Side Note:

    I do have a beautiful Culligan Fleck 7000 1 1/4" valve sitting in my garage. It was installed in 2008, sat unused on plumbing bypass for a while, and then was recently tested four times a few months ago. If someone ever needs one but doesn't want to deal with the C-word people, I could be convinced easily to part with it for a reasonable cost.

    I would NEVER do business with the C-People again.
  19. John Vegas

    John Vegas New Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I wonder if that valve would fit my Culligan tank? Does it have a good seal pack? PM me if you want to send me a price, I might be interested (you can take a trip to Vegas to drop it off too :)

    JS


  20. John Vegas

    John Vegas New Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I saw the solder connections, but I dare not try to solder while something is connected to plastic, I am sure to melt the bypass! LOL JS

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