Lake water supply line freeze prevention

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by John Perrie, Sep 10, 2008.

  1. John Perrie

    John Perrie New Member

    Messages:
    8
    I am constructing a cottage in Ct. The building is 6" above grade on concrete piers. Water supply is from a lake 40' away. The water line is buried 36" but
    must be exposed above ground at pump connection and were it enters the building. The pump location is designed to be outside against the building in a small enclosure. I know this section will freeze in winter.
    1. Is there a way to insulate and or heat the line to avoid freezing.
    2. Is there a simple way to empty water in pump and line to below freeze depth in soil.
  2. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Heat tape!

    What lake are you on?
  3. Bill Arden

    Bill Arden Computer Programmer

    Messages:
    584
    Location:
    MN, USA
    1. Yes
    They make a waterproof heat tape and you can wrap closed cell foam insulation around the pipe and then use a piece of4 inch PVC pipe to protect it.

    2. Not easily.

    Will the cottage freeze in the winter?
    Why not put the pump in the cottage?

    If the system is shut down for the winter, you could use RV antifreeze to protect the pump and pipes in the cottage.
  4. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I would just set it up for gravity drainage or have it blown out with an air compressor...

    I would not want anti freeze introduced into the supply system.

    Its fine in fixtures and traps.
  5. masterpumpman

    masterpumpman New Member

    Messages:
    729
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Heat tape, maybe!

    My preference would be to install a submersible well pump in the lake with the tank and pressure switch in the cottage. In the winter you could have a drain valve below the water freezing level. Turn off the power to the pump, open all the faucets in the house and then open the drain valve and everything in the cottage (except the commode and hot water tank) will drain back into the lake.

    If you are going to be using this cottage year round I would still mount the submersible pump in the lake and insulate and install a heat tape on the water line from the ground to inside the cottage.

    This should work great unless I am missing something that I'm not advised of here! It beats and above ground jet pump because the pump won't freeze and you never have to prime it.

    This is what we do to cabins, camps and cottages in PA and other freezing areas. The only difference is that the submersible pumps are in the wells.
  6. John Perrie

    John Perrie New Member

    Messages:
    8
    cottage lake water supply

    I am going to take your advice to install a submersible pump. This solves the concerns with pump and line freezing. Now an underground electric service to the pump in the lake approx. 150' is required. The water line distance from the building to the submersible pump location in the lake will be approx. 150'. w/ a verticle rise of about 15'.
    I will also use the heat tape and insulation surrounded with 6" pipe on the exposed sections and extend that underground 2'.
    I have no knowledge of submersible pumps.
    My concern is sand and debris drawn into the pump. My thought is 6" perforated pipe over the pump and pipe w/ filter fabric (sock) to prevent debris from entering.
    Any recommendations on quality submersible pumps or other ideas.
  7. Bill Arden

    Bill Arden Computer Programmer

    Messages:
    584
    Location:
    MN, USA
    I still don't see why you don't pound down a sandpoint and use the sandy soil as a large filter.

    Raw lake water contains lots of stuff that I would not want in my water. :p
  8. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Bill here in Connecticut a sandpoint would probably go no deeper than you could dig with a shovel in a few minutes. We have hard mineral deposits that naturally occur in the ground. In most cases drilling or blasting would be required for removal. But that is why I was asking the poster what lake in CT. I have intimate knowledge of many of them.
  9. John Perrie

    John Perrie New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Ct. cottage water supply

    This cottage will be left unheated during winter months. Toilet design requires no water or plumbing. The lake water supply will be cartridge filterered and used for showers and cleaning, never for drinking.

    Not familiar w/ the term sand point.
    The lake is located north east of Durham. Digging is difficult by hand down to 3' then becomes very hard. The waterline has already been installed 30" deep in the ground and runs underwater to 5' depth.
    1. Surrounding a submersible w/ perforated ads pipe covered w/ filter fabric and raised off the bottom 1' to 2'. Will this design create any problems?
  10. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    It would probably be a pretty good set up. 30" deep lines may be a bit shallow in the ground though...
    I suspect other limitations would come into play first though...

    Millers Pond area?



    :cool:
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2008
  11. John Perrie

    John Perrie New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Ct. cottage water supply

    1. Will a submersible pump mounted horizontal in a lake operate correctly?
    2. Does a submersible pump require a sleeve or case over it to function correctly?
  12. ton

    ton New Member

    Messages:
    41
  13. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    You can look at Submersible Pumps here and for keeping it clean, I can put the pump inside one of my lake strainers for you. When the bag gets dirty, simply take it off and replace/clean it. This will keep out anything that would plug the pump or it's impellers.

    I just updated my pictures of accessories and need to redo the lake strainer. You can use the link provided there to go to their website where there is a better picture. The link is: Water Well Accessories

    bob...
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2011
  14. the mountaineer

    the mountaineer New Member

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    Location:
    ny
  15. the mountaineer

    the mountaineer New Member

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    ny
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