Kohler Wellworth Canister Flush Valve chain tangling?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by glacial_erratic, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. glacial_erratic

    glacial_erratic New Member

    Messages:
    4
    We had a Koehler Wellworth toilet installed during a remodel last year. It flushes OK, but about every 3 or 4 flushes, the chain inside the tank gets tangled or stuck, and the toilet runs. Then you havd to open the lid and straighten it out. Are there any fixes or ways to prevent this?
    Thank you!

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2011
  2. Peanut9199

    Peanut9199 Customer Service Manager Plumbing Wholesale

    Messages:
    875
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Toto had the same problem on there G-max flappers and they started putting a 2" plastic tube over the chain to stop it tangling.

    You see it in this picture on top of the flapper.

    cst854_inside_tank_new.jpg
  3. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,183
    Location:
    New England
    What does it get stuck on? If it has too much slack between the lever and the flapper, one of the links can get caught underneath the flapper...just shorten it some. Otherwise, guess we need a picture.
  4. glacial_erratic

    glacial_erratic New Member

    Messages:
    4
    The Wellworth doesn't have a flapper. It has a tall, wide tube that lifts up with the lever and a chain near the top. (Sorry, I'm an amateur, don't know the name of the tube-like thing that lifts up to flush.) The chain just tangles itself - like some of the links get kind of twisted up together and then the tube does not fall back down into position. It's not a very long chain, so I was surprised it has this problem. Maybe the chain-cover like the Toto would help, but is that something Koehler would have? I will try to add a picture on Monday, unless someone else has had this problem and can send in the solution.
    Thanks for your help!
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,183
    Location:
    New England
    Kohler is unlikely to have that or care. I'd just try something like HD or a hardware store and see what I could find that might work.
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,148
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    That sounds like the new Canister flush valve from Kohler.

    Does this mean they put an untested product out to replace their oversized flappers that would quickly go bad with a product that has chain problems?

    Just a question.

    http://www.kohlerserviceparts.kohle...etail.htm?productNumber=3609-TR&business=KPNA

    Can you post a picture of the inside of the tank?
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  7. glacial_erratic

    glacial_erratic New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Wellworth pictures

    It took me a while to get pictures. I don't live at the house where the toilet is. Here are some pix attached. The first one is when the toilet flushes, the second picture is when the tube is back down for refilling. Any ideas on how to prevent the chain from sticking, let me know! Thank you.

    Attached Files:

  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,148
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    That is almost too funny.
    I can see why it's sticking.
    The links are too big and they hang up on themselves.
    You may want to find something with smaller chain links, or maybe a chain made of beads.

    I can see that this is their fix for the large floppy flapper that would leak when it got soft.
    Too bad the chain hangs up now.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2009
  9. glacial_erratic

    glacial_erratic New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Thanks!!! I will change the chain. It seems like Kohler could have figured that out!

    MJH
  10. ajrambousek

    ajrambousek New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    resolution

    It is actually the chain clip that can actually catch up, they have redesigned the trip lever. It now actually has a circle ring rather than the chain clip. This is more likely to happen for the people who hold down the handle. if you call them they will order the replacement for you no charge.
  11. panhead63

    panhead63 New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Vashon Washington
    kohler cannister flush

    why try to re-invent the wheel. the flapper worked this cannister doesn't and none of the fixes kohler has offered have worked. i put five of these toilets in a doctor's office. all of them have had problems with the cannister getting stuck and water constantly running. this costs money folks and kohler doesn't care. over 18 months of attempts to get this fixed and now i am going to start replacing them with something else. at first it was the chains and the little gate hook attachement they were using now i notice that as the flush lever gets worn or weakened it tends to knock the cannister slight out of alignment and doesn't allow it fall back down not sure if there is a fix? someone suggest a chain with smaller links or beads and that was my most successful attempt at repair but even those are starting to have the problem of the lever putting just enough pressure on the cannister to not let it fall. sorry if i went on so long with this rant but this has been a big problem and my supplier and i have both been un-happy with kohler's response.

    [​IMG]
  12. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,148
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    They went to the cannister because the extra large flapper they were using became too soft and would leak.
    I asked the head engineer at Kohler why they were going so big, I suggested that 2.75" may be better, it would still drop plenty of water quickly, and be easier to design a flapper that held up.
    The president of the company chimed in and said that for marketing purposes, bigger is always better.
    I disagreed, but then what do I know.
    The Keg Restaurant in Factoria.

    It would be a simple fix to come up with a replacement flush valve with smaller opening and flapper.
    A/S came up with a replacement for their Champion line.
    They went big for marketing too, but it necks down to 3" so all that hype was really marketing again.

    The meal was good and the company. Jamie and I enjoyed talking with them.

    I love the Kohler cast iron tubs. I need to install one here.
    The Mendota K-506 is a really nice one.
    60" x 32" x 16-1/4"


    Though I did install the Archer for someone, and that would work too.
    K-1123-RA
    60" x 32" x 19"
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
  13. maddog

    maddog Engineer

    Messages:
    129
    Location:
    near San Jose, CA.
    In-laws needed to replace a toilet in a little-used guest bath. This toilet was recommended to them by a 'contractor' friend as they didn't want to spend a lot of money. Easy enough to install and it has a fairly decent flush for a $120 toilet. I'm not a fan of flush towers/canisters, due to past experience with Mansfield and American Standard, but I was impressed with the flush and bowl rinse. Tank shows made in the USA but the flush lever and canister seem to be a little 'cheap'. The chain hasn't hung up yet, but we'll see how the canister and seal hold up over time .... So far, it looks OK for occasional use but I don't think I would recommend this one for commercial or heavy use.
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2010
  14. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Thats the Kohler "Class Five" flushing system for its official name...
    Just another of their latest and greatest proprietary parts...
  15. PrettyPeggyPlumber

    PrettyPeggyPlumber New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Thanks so much for your insight on the canister flush mechanism. Ours went bad after just over a year (after the warranty ran out of course) and with testing, I've noticed the red capped "Fluidmaster" diaphram hangs up at the end of the fill cycle and won't shut the water off. VERY annoying. If you push down on the black vertical rod, that is attached to the flush handle, voila it turns off. If you pull the rod out of the snap fitting at the top where it attaches to the lever that connects it to the red top piece, then adjust the loose rod so the water level turn off is lower, then snap it back in, this seems to alleviate the problem of it not shutting off after flushing. I'm not about to dump in another $100 to replace internal toilet parts that are obviously POORLY engineered and worth no more than $25 tops. Kohler needs to get their head out of the toilet and get this mess fixed.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2010
  16. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Why not forward this to kohler a few hundred times. They do have a few smart guys working there.
  17. paplauskas

    paplauskas New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    CT
    Kohler Cannister Valve Sticking

    Same problem, but here's what I have noticed. The cannister tends to rotate, so that the chain becomes taught against the cannister tube, and prevents it from closing properly. The cannister can be rotated back to have more slack in the chain, and that allows it to seat properly. Unfortunately, after 20 or 30 flushes it rotates again, and the chain goes taught again. I don't know how to prevent the rotation.
Similar Threads: Kohler Wellworth
Forum Title Date
Toilet Forum discussions Old Kohler Wellworth with plastic tubing for siphon jet Sep 7, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions Questions about Toto Eco Drake, Kohler Wellworth Mar 29, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions Kohler Wellworth & Memoirs toilet help Aug 21, 2013
Toilet Forum discussions new Kohler Wellworth not flushing properly Apr 10, 2011
Toilet Forum discussions Kohler Wellworth problem Dec 13, 2010

Share This Page