Kohler Serif and Kohler Pinoir

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by DuxMux, Sep 2, 2004.

  1. DuxMux

    DuxMux New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Hi

    I need some informations about the Kohler Serif or the Kohler Pinoir. Can they move a least 250g? Are they noisy? The Serif got an pull-up flush knob can this be a problem?


    I'm also considering for another bathroom the Toto carusoe or the Cadet III 3gpf/13l. Do you favor one over the other.


    Thanks
  2. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    For info on the "grams" issue see Terry Love's site.

    The Serif uses the Kohler Ingenium flush system ( combo rim flush and siphon jet). This system is a decent flusher.

    Not familiar with the Pinoir.

    If you do any research at all on flushing, you will see that Toto has sort of written the book on this, especially their G-max. Cimarron and Champion are the new kids on the block in this arena. I personally have a Sloan FLushmate in a Mansfield toilet ( had this for 12 years now.) We like this a lot and would not change. Power flush is noisy, and this is not acceptable to some people. Also, repair parts are more expensive. In the 12 years I have replaced the cartridge ($26) three times and the lower supply assy. ($55) once. All in all I am sold on power flush, but the performance of the Toto seems to equal my Flushmate.
  3. DuxMux

    DuxMux New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Thanks Jimbo

    You are right about Toto toilets but they are too much expensive here in Montreal. Just a plain Drake is about 400$can, the Dartmouth is 570$can. I have to buy 3 new toilets: one that have a retro look the 2 other can be just ordinary design.

    The kohler pinoir use the ingenium system that you talked about so the performance must be the same?

    My intention was to buy the Kohler Serif and 2 cadet III 3gpf/13l or 2 toto carusoe.
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,783
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The same as what?

    The Kohler Wellworth elongated with Ingenium moves 125 grams.
    Toto Drake elongated with G-Max moves 900 grams.
    Toto Baldwin elongated with G-Max 675 grams
    Mansfield Quantam EL w/Flushmate moves 475 grams

    Canada is tougher I guess though.
    Last week I sold some TOTO Baldwins and a TOTO Dartmouth to a customer from Alberta Canada on a "will-call" basis.

    Drake 800 grams by Veritech Video
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2009
  5. DuxMux

    DuxMux New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Hi terry


    The same for all Kohler toilets who have the ingenium system (Pinoir,Serif, wellworth ect...) so if you say it's 125g for the wellworth it must be the same for all these toilets.

    Your price tag if i convert it in can$ is way way way lower then any Toto dealer in Canada.

    What do you think about Toto carusoe vs American standard cadet III 3gpf?
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,783
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The Ingenium system is all over the board in the ratings, from a low of 125 up to a high of 500.
    I tend to remove my share of these toilets.

    The Ingenium consists of a 2" flush valve and a siphon jet. It's pretty much what they have been doing for years.
    Nice name for it though.

    Trapways vary quite a bit among the Ingenium models, thus different results.

    I don't have any experience with the Cadet 3 gpf toilets in Canada.
    The Toto Carusoe works well, more splash than the siphon jet models.
    The Carusoe is used at the Crystal Lodge, Whistler Village in BC
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2009
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