Kohler Rialto K-3402 toilet fill valve repair

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by koehler, Dec 30, 2004.

  1. pwjone1

    pwjone1 Engineer

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Poughkeepsie, NY
    Any non Coast Replacement Fill Valves work in Kohler Rialto K-3402?

    The Coast 1B1X float valves were OK, in their day, but I'm kind of wondering if any of the more recent design fill valves can work in a Kohler Rialto K-3402 (pre-1998):

    * Fluidmaster
    * FillPro
    * Korky

    Here's the toilet specifics:

    http://www.us.kohler.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/114396_8.pdf

    The Float Ball is actually a fairly tight fit near the Flush Valve assembly, I worry a bit if the flapper is going to clear, and if the Ball is going to hit the side of the tank, etc. I noticed that Kohler in the evolution of the Rialto has used some non-ball designs, one looks like a Fluidmaster. And I seem to remember Fluidmaster at one time making a 1-piece tank replacement (doesn't seem to be obvious if they still have that).

    But the part I cannot figure out, if I were to use one of the newer/cheaper fill/float valves, is how to do the diverter for the rim that Kohler has. This is a 2ndary float and valve type arrangement, big plastic tube, that comes out of the Coast 1B1X just under the top.

    Thoughts?
  2. pwjone1

    pwjone1 Engineer

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Poughkeepsie, NY
    I am thinking (see another append) about doing something similar. I have a few questions:

    1. Where did you get the stopper with a hole in it? (Test Tube stopper or ?)

    2. How did you adjust the amount of water running through it to the rim?

    3. Any siphoning or other problems to worry about? Tube routing high?

    Thanks.
  3. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,453
    Location:
    Connecticut
    No the hole for the fill valve is right in the corner of the tank there is not enough clearance for any of those fill valves.
  4. pwjone1

    pwjone1 Engineer

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Poughkeepsie, NY
    Thanks for the pointer, I'll certainly have to check the clearance on the units. However, it kind of looks like there's at least one append in this thread that says at least the Fluidmaster would work, earlier by Bob Weaver:

    Now, I'll grant you, I'm not sure what to make entirely of the 110psi hot water hook up, etc., but it does at least seem to indicate the Fluidmaster 400A and the Korky 528 (which is the standard Lavelle part, not the Toto variant, which is frankly tempting to try out in a one piece toilet (if it fits :confused:)). Granted, Lavelle looks like it comes out somewhat high, have to do some measurements, there, see if it clears the lid. The FillPro doesn't look like it would have clearance problems, thing is tiny.

    I'll have to poke around, see if I can find somewhere that gives measurement/clearances on the units. Eyeballing the rim feed tube (a kind of big plastic piece on the Kohler 3402s), it does appear to be above water level, with the tank full (although the point where it leaves the assembly on the Coast fill-valve ends up under water), so if I worked the smaller tubes on these units into that opening, it would seem likely to work. Granted, not clear the water amount would be the same. That had been my primary concern, but I guess there are others.

    Thanks for the guidance. Some things to think about.
  5. RubenRZ3

    RubenRZ3 New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Texas
    Awesome! thx 4 the help!

    I bought a 3402 @ a habitat for humanity store. I had wanted one for a while but didn't want to spend so much. I found this gem for 25 dollars. But the filler valve was leaking I thought I was going to buy the whole kit for 118 locally. But you all helped me find the PlumPak and now it's not leaking and working great. And it only cost me 14 bucks to fix. So 39 bucks for a black Kohler in my book sounds like a deal and a half! Thx you all so much for the help!!!

    Ruben
  6. hnlulu

    hnlulu New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    New York
    kohler K3402 pb rialto

    Is their any way i can fix these toilets,they sweat and also leak from the supply line entry.Is their something new i can replace the original thanks joe
  7. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,302
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Are these low flow toilets or old 3 gallon per flushers? The reason they sweat is the water coming into the tank after a flush is cold. If your toilets are the antiquated 3 gallon models, you have 2 factors working against you. First, the old toilets dump the entire tank into the flush so 3 gallons of fresh cold water is required to refill the tank. New low flow toilets do not use all of the water in the tank so the incoming water is mixed with water already at room temperature. This alone reduces or eliminates sweating, but add to that that the volume of new water is only 1.6 gallons and sweating should not happen. If your toilet is an old one, replace it with a Toto Drake and live happily ever after. As far as the leaking supply line, what can I say? If it is leaking through a fitting, tighten it up. If the line is leaking, replace it. If the stop valve is leaking, tighten the packing nut. If this is beyond your abilities, hire a plumber.
  8. dcrosamond

    dcrosamond New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Covina, Ca
    New Part Number for Kohler 3402

    I just replaced the ball cock flush assembly with new parts from Ace Hardware. It no longer part number 1B1X but is now part number 04-4165. State replacement for one piece toilets.

    Comes with the tubing and the bar for the ball. Good to go and only $24.39 before tax.

    Diane
  9. netnexxus

    netnexxus New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    virginia
    Brass Replacement Valve Assembly for Rialto 3402

    I have 4 Rialto 3402's and had constant problems with original Kohler plastic valves, I replaced them with the Coast copper /w plastic sleeve valves but these also started to leak after about 3 years and I could no longer find replacements or parts at my local supply house. About 4 years ago I got tired of the cost and hassle of having to repair/replace the valves on a regular basis and had decided to replace the toilets when I heard about a small company who was starting to market solid brass replacement valves for the 3402. The valves were perfect replacements and significantly better than the originals.

    I recently experienced a very strange problem with the valves starting to leak a few hours after shutting off. I called the company and after trying a few of their suggestions, they replaced the valves. Working with this company is an incredibly satisfying experience. They make an excellent product and stand behind it. A very rare trait nowadays.

    I wanted to recommend them to anyone looking to replace/repair the Rialto 3402 valves. Good luck

    http://www.cescobrass.com/Model16ak.cfm

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2009
  10. tgeorge1

    tgeorge1 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    TN
    Bowl Water level Too Low

    New to this board and probably haven't followed proper procedures for new post (sorry) but have a comment and question: After flushing, water level in bowl remains low. How do I raise the level of water in the bowl (pre-flush)?
    tg
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,806
    Location:
    New England
    You may not be able to...a toilet bowl is like a teakettle with a spout. You can only fill it so full before water comes out of the spout. Take a bucket of water and SLOWLY pour it into the bowl. See if it goes any higher after it sets for say 5-minutes after you finish...that is the maximum it will hold by design. Nothing you can do about it but replace with something better. Now, if the bowl holds more water than your current fill valve is providing, make sure that the tank level is proper. If that's good, make sure that the hose is pointed properly into the overflow tube in the tank. If both of those are good, then you might need to chose the manufacturer's specified fill valve - some of them balance the fill volumes to match your toilet better.
  12. caplumb

    caplumb New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    ca
    Re: Brass Replacement Valve Assembly for Rialto 3402

    http://www.cescobrass.com/Model16ak.cfm

    After reading many posts re: how to fix / replace fill valves of Kohler one piece toilets, I decided to try cescobrass replacement fill valves. Ordered them online, received within 10 days and installed them in 30 minutes flat. I am a novice at minor repair and a plumber quoted me $100 labor and $100 replacement Kohler fill valve. Cescobrass 16AK cost me $61 and 30 minutes of my time! The part is solid and replacement is easy. Instructions are clear.

    It might have been cheaper to buy various repair kits and try to repair the topcap of the fill valve but with 5 year warranty, I prefer the Scovill Model 16AK Ballcock for Kohler Toilets from CescoBrass. Just a satisfied customer!
  13. mprubin

    mprubin New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    md
    rialto tank seal may be bad

    Hi:

    I've kept four old rialtos going for 25 years using a mix of factory and aftermarket parts. Usually replacing top plunger along with new ballcock head piece will fix problem, plastic top piece seems to break within 2-3 years.

    But here is an issue that doesn't seem to be mentioned in thread. I was getting refill from fill valve every few minutes so figured there was a leak into the bowl. Tried a number of new flappers and no relief. seat of flapper fiting seemed fine. Here was the problem. The tank flapper assembly is sealed between tank and bowl with a large permanent rubber fitting. Mine seemed pretty degraded and I thought there might be some leakage through it. Kohler apparantly thought so too, because they made a refit kit with a completely new seal and flapper mount/overfill drain. Real pain to install. have to cut old seal out and clean up residue. The new seal is two piece, you work bottom piece through hole and then there are clamping screws to compress the new seal in place. However, the factory kit didn't work because it always leaked from tank to bowl no matter how I adjusted clamps. So I used silicone to glue top and bottom new seals as well as clamping them. Problem solved. No more leaks into bowl and refills stopped. I don't know if kit still available, but look at part diagrams and will probably find its number. The clamping bars are obvious in the diagram. With drying times, its a two day job so doubtfull plumber would try it. So if getting a slow leak, it may not actually be flapper but flapper mount seal. If it looks degraded, it may be leaking. Of course I still have everyone's problem with that ballcock. There is an aftermarket one now made by larsen and I am going to try one of the cesco brass ones as well.
  14. rvsarch

    rvsarch New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Drexel Hill, PA
    Out to Pasture

    I finally retired my three Rialto toilets. I installed shut off valves with 1/2" diameter tubing up to the the fill valve as recommended in the installation instructions but they were never strong performers and it took a lot to keep them working for twenty years. I replaced them with Toto Willingham toilets. They have a strong flush and look great. My wife likes the shelf molded into the tank cover. I especially like the ADA height and elongated bowl.
  15. pwjone1

    pwjone1 Engineer

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Poughkeepsie, NY
    The problem for me is the colors of the toilets that are installed in the house. 3 bathrooms, all Kohler K3402 (Round), all different colors. None seem to be in the current Kohler catalog of colors. Replacing the toilet would mean then doing the bathrooms over (new sinks, new bathtub, probably new tile, etc.). Not that I wouldn't mind a better flushing toilet, might be a tad more ecologically correct with a lower flow toilet (although in our area, water is pretty plentiful), but the drag-along cost of redoing the bathrooms is a bit on the prohibitive side.

    So I used the Kohler rebuild kit when the first toilet got into problems, that was expensive but worked well enough, 2nd. is having problems, about to do the same there. Mostly it seems that the rubber gasket at the bottom of the flush valve that gives out and leaks that causes me to do the rebuild, although I've done in the interim various flapper and fill valve plunger replacements, nothing too serious there. But the rubber at the bottom of the fill and flush valves eventually seems to give out, start to disintegrate. I also see some slight cracking in the plastic on the older fill valves, generally in the area around the where the screws attach the cap. I guess the plastic and rubber giving out after 20 years is not that big a deal.

    One thing that does strike me as a bit odd, is that the various Fluidmaster, Korky, etc., replacement fill valves don't have a Kohler one-piece model. They are cheap, look like they'd fit, but they just don't seem in current models to have a bowl refill attachment to fill the rim. Doesn't seem like it would be all that difficult. I know a previous appender used a 400A and a rubber stopper fed by the refill tube, but it's unclear to me if that would get the right amount of water into the bowl.

    I do notice that WDI (Axent) makes models where the amount can be controlled:

    http://www.wdiplumbing.com/en/pro_detail.asp?pid=92&id=622

    [​IMG]

    But I couldn't find a U.S. supplier for any of the WDI fill valves. Reading through the forums, I guess they get used in some Toto models, and dimensionally it looks like they'd work in a Kohler, but apparently not an option. The unit looks like a Lavelle, and truth be told, I'd prefer for parts and other reasons to stay U.S. based, but for now it looks like I'm stuck with one of the older ballcock arrangements, from Kohler/Cesco/Lavelle/Plumb Pak.
  16. pwjone1

    pwjone1 Engineer

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Poughkeepsie, NY
    I guess for the sake of completeness, for the K3402 Kohler toilet, here are some sources for replacement fill valves. Noting my research here, to maybe save some others some time. Mostly I'd still start with a trip to the local plumbing supply stores, their advice is generally quite valuable, but if you find the local suppliers don't have the parts, these are some sources.

    Here is the URL for the Kohler parts:

    http://www.kohlerserviceparts.kohler.com/ServicePartsPage.aspx?DocumentID=69aabf39b8254119a55ef565bffa50c9&ModelID=c349f6539dd349209d19ef5b8a0c773c

    (you can click on the parts you need, which is kind of helpful)

    Kohler Rialto K3402 rebuild kit (84499) (I've given the Kohler URL, there are other suppliers, and this includes both flush and fill valves)

    Cesco Brass Scoville 16AK (all Brass/Copper fill valve)

    Homefixitparts.com Fill Valve (just the plastic fill valve, plus assorted hardware, less expensive)

    Larsen Supply 04-9163 (Plastic + Brass/Copper, from China)

    Ace Hardware Replacement Fill Valve (Plumb Pack/Plastic)

    Lowe's Plumb Pak varient (similar to the above)

    I will at least give credit to Kohler, they're still around, and for the most part, they still stock parts. I guess a lot griped about the cost and variety of parts, and the ECs Kohler has made over time. I cannot really knock a company for trying to improve its product, and if a company is in business long enough, there will be quite a few models over time. And at least Cesco has a replacement product out, might be better than the original (I suspect that the Kohler parts are, too). But it would have been nice if something more standard current practice, with leak limiters, like Fluidmaster or Korky or similar, had a model that would fit. But at least there are alternatives.
  17. DNSMD

    DNSMD New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Maryland
    I have 2 of these toilets and the one upstairs was giving me real fits. Rebuilt the fill valve and replaced the flapper and adjusted everything as best I could but it always ran or failed to fully flush. I cleaned the holes under the rim and used vasaline on the flapper and replaced it several times as needed hard water conditions. I finally got fed up and replaced the fill valve with a Korky #528 Quietfill made in the US and it fits and adjusts to the proper water level (all the way down). I ran the overfill hose to the overfill drain had to buy longer hose but it now fills and shuts off and flushes completely! My only concern is the fact that there is no rim supply would it be ok to run the overfill hose to the rim rather than the overfill drain? Is this needed since the toilet seems to be working fine the way I have it set up, or am I asking for a future problem?
  18. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,806
    Location:
    New England
    Didn't realize Kohler separated the overflow and the rim feed. It shouldn't matter if you put the water there verses in the overflow...they both go into the bowl to eventually refill it. So, either place should be fine.
  19. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,253
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote;
    * Fluidmaster
    * FillPro
    * Korky
    NONE of these have the rim flush provision that the Coast valve does, AND calling the FillPro a fill valve, for anything other than a decorative fountain or a horse waterer, is ridiculous. (AAnd since it is NOT an antisiphon valve it is NOT an approved device for a toilet tank)
  20. chefwong

    chefwong New Member

    Messages:
    710
    Location:
    District of Columbia
    Here's hoping the Cesco is the winner...
    I just ordered one last night after the umpteenth time of buying a new flapper.

    I would change the toilet in a heartbeat to a Toto but when we redid this one....I did a navy cast iron tub, navy sink and navy toilet.....I wouldn't mind paying the premium for a Navy Toto if they made such a beast
Similar Threads: Kohler Rialto
Forum Title Date
Toilet Forum discussions Kohler Rialto toilet 1984 Nov 23, 2013
Toilet Forum discussions Kohler Rialto seal height Jun 5, 2013
Toilet Forum discussions 15 inch rough in!! toto with unifit or kohler rialto?? Nov 22, 2011
Toilet Forum discussions Kohler Rialto flush gasket issue Aug 26, 2011
Toilet Forum discussions Kohler K-3386 Rialto One-Piece Toilet, comments and pictures Jun 17, 2011

Share This Page