Kohler Kelston Comfort Height 1.28 gpf feedback???

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by CLAbrams, Apr 16, 2014.

  1. CLAbrams

    CLAbrams New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    MD
    :confused:Does anybody have feedback on the Kohler Kelston 1.28 gpf model? I'm remodeling a new house and installing 3 new toilets. The price and style of this model seem like a good fit. It has a map score of 1000. I'm getting conflicting advice about Kohler vs. Toto. Several people have told me Toto lost its edge on performance with a number of models when it went to the lower gpf. My contractor likes Kohler -- says his clients have been happy with them. Sales person tells me the new technology is superior to Toto.

    Thanks!!!

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2014
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    22,156
    Location:
    New England
    The inventor of the MAP test says anything over 500 is fine. Many of the toilet manufacturers have figured out how to maximize their performance on those tests. Keeping in mind that what they flush is plastic wrapped waste sausages, nice and smooth, no rough edges, the test isn't of the real thing.

    Given any Kohler verses a Toto, I'd take a Toto. Partly because their QA/QC is better, and second, because Kohler tends to use non-standard parts that are not that easy to find. I do not know the specifics of the Kohler model you're considering...some of them do use more easily found parts, and they will need things like seals and maybe a fill valve over their lifetime.

    The thing I'd do, is take a very close look at the side of the toilet and look at the path of the trapway - especially at the end where it turns down to the toilet flange and out. On many of their toilets, it tries to make a tortuous tight turn right there...works fine with plastic wrapped sausages, but throw in some 'real' stuff along with paper, and the end result may not be as good. Toto's path is much more smooth and gradual with no sharp turns to slow things or trap stuff, so things just go down well. The prices on anything like this can vary considerably from one vendor to another, so shop around...you can often save a very big percentage off list. Throw in probably the tightest QA/QC in the industry, and, at least in my mind, Toto wins. I have two, and put two in my mother's house.
  3. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

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    Just keep in mind a couple of things. Your contractor likely has a sweet deal from his supplier based on volume sales. Then, guess what the sales person is selling? In mean if you go to the Ford dealership, the salesman isn't likely to tell you how good the Chevrolet is. Those of us that use Toto toilets in our homes know the quality is superior.
  4. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    New York, NY
    Let's just be straight about it. It's total BS that Toto "lost its edge". Wonder why they have to keep expanding their US factory.

    The fact is, 1.28gpf is a piece of cake for Toto. They now actually have a number of models that flush on 1.0gpf, and I am amazed at the reviews these models get. People can't believe they work as well as they do on a mere 1 gallon of water.

    The MAP score is now essentially useless, as Jim said. As long as it's over 500, it's meaningless. More importantly, as Terry often points out, it doesn't consider things like bowl wash, noise, quality of build, etc., which are important.

    The current batch of Totos all flush great, and you can take that to the bank. This from a guy that now owns 3 of them. Two Original Drakes, and one of the Double-Cyclone "II" models.

    The Kelson uses the piston canister flush. You aren't going to find a replacement for that at any old hardware store when the time comes. Enjoy paying Kohler a premium price for that part when it breaks.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  5. CLAbrams

    CLAbrams New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    MD
    Thanks everybody for your insights. Very helpful indeed. I looked at Totos today. Considering the Drake II with either 1.28 or 1.6 gallon flush. I know 1.28 saves water, but does 1.6 give a better flush?
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,136
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    1.6 is not better than the II series from TOTO.
    1.28 with Sanagloss rules!

    MaP ratings over 500 are kind of useless to read about. The most that will ever be flushed is 200 grams.

    The Kelsten is nice though, but I'm giving the edge to the Drake II.
    However, Kelsten does have a nice style.
    The newer models from American Standard, Kohler and TOTO are heads and shoulders above what you would have seen in the 90's.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  7. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,899
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Just for clarification:

    The Drake II, CST454CEFG, is only in 1.28gpf. And comes standard with Sanagloos, Universal Height, and the double-cyclone flush.

    The Original Drake, which is a less-expensive toilet (of which I own 2), is the one with the option of 1.6 or 1.28. CST744S in the elongated 1.6, CST744E in the elongated 1.28. Most people can't tell the difference in performance between the S and the E, as they look the same and both work great.
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