Kohler Cimarron flush valve leak

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williamp

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Hi all, newby here. I have a Kohler cimarron toilet that is leaking very slowly somewhere around the flush valve. This toilet has the aqua piston flush (canister). The toilet has been leaking almost as long as I had it (about 2 years). I have replaced the canister seal 3 times and the shank gasket once. Still a slow leak. I can't find a new flush valve assembly around here and was wondering about changing to the flapper type flush valve. Will this work on a Kohler or not? The flush valve assembly part No. is 1113629 but changed to 1188999 according to some web research. Maybe this is an upgrade? Anyway I don't seem to be able to find one. I did a leak test found on this forum and it verified that the leak was the flush valve.
Any help or suggestions will be appreciated.
bill

k-3999_8.jpg

photo added by Terry Love
 
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Terry

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You may be able to remove and reinstall the flush valve, checking the inside of the tank for roughness. Sometimes it's a simple fix like that.
A bit of emory cloth may be the answer, or it may just be loose.


canister-seal-yellow.jpg
 
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williamp

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Do you mean remove the entire flush valve or take it apart like your pic shows? I had it out last week so I don't think it's loose. Thanks for the reply.
 

Terry

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If the water in the tank leaks down to the cannister seal, then that's the problem.
If it leaks down to the porcelain, then it's the flush valve seal, and you will want to remove it and see why it's not sealing.
 

williamp

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Water leaked down to the canister seal. I had already replaced the gasket seal 3 times over the past year and it never stopped leaking. It would leak down about 1/2" and then fill back up. It took 2+ hours for this to happen. So, I replaced the flush valve with a Fluidmaster 507AK and it looks like my troubles are over(unless using the Fluidmaster becomes a problem).

I inspected the flange on the Kohler flush valve after I got it out and found 2 very small dents in the plastic on the seat for the seal. I think that was the problem. Found the dents using a magnifying glass.
 
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Terry

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Water leaked down to the canister seal. I had already replaced the gasket seal 3 times over the past year and it never stopped leaking. It would leak down about 1/2" and then fill back up. It took 2+ hours for this to happen. So, I replaced the flush valve with a Fluidmaster 507AK and it looks like my troubles are over(unless using the Fluidmaster becomes a problem).

I inspected the flange on the Kohler flush valve after I got it out and found 2 very small dents in the plastic. I think that was the problem. Found the dents using a magnifying glass.

Dents in the surface of the flush valve will do it. :(
 

williamp

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O.K. about 3 weeks ago I took matters into my own hands and replaced the Kohler flush valve with a Fluidmaster universal 2" flush valve. It fit the hole in the bottom of the tank perfectly. The only thing I had to do was shorten the overflow tube about an inch or so to get the top of the tube below the level of the flush handle. I also replaced the flush handle because the Kohler arm for the chain was too short to get a decent pull on the flapper. Now I don' have a leaking flush valve and the toilet seems to be working just fine without the Kohler flush valve installed. (Kohler flush valve hard to find around here.)
I wanted to know if the non Kohler part would work and it will.
 

WJcandee

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O.K. about 3 weeks ago I took matters into my own hands and replaced the Kohler flush valve with a Fluidmaster universal 2" flush valve. It fit the hole in the bottom of the tank perfectly. The only thing I had to do was shorten the overflow tube about an inch or so to get the top of the tube below the level of the flush handle. I also replaced the flush handle because the Kohler arm for the chain was too short to get a decent pull on the flapper. Now I don' have a leaking flush valve and the toilet seems to be working just fine without the Kohler flush valve installed. (Kohler flush valve hard to find around here.)
I wanted to know if the non Kohler part would work and it will.

You learned the simple truth that most of the time these unique flush valves are more marketing than science, like the allegedly-4" flush valve on the AS Champion 4, which goes into a 3" hole just like many new toilets. Korky makes a standard 3" flush valve with flapper that can replace it, and it works like a champ.

Congratulations on replacing the thing yourself -- you got it working and saved yourself a bunch of money!
 

williamp

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Right, the Kohler flush valve claimed to be a 3" but it tapered down to a 2" hole in the bottom of the tank. Thanks for your post.
Which is best, Fluidmaster or Korky parts?
 
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WJcandee

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A lot of plumbers swear by the Fluidmaster 400A fill valve. Terry has said that he likes the Korky 528 because, among other things, it's easy to install, very flexible in terms of the number of toilets it can work in, and can be repaired by a homeowner themselves with Terry giving instructions over the phone, and the moving parts are all contained in a $3 cap that is a one-minute job to replace. I like it in addition to those reasons because on the 528MP, which has an adjustable refill ratio, the little knob that you turn to adjust the refill is very precise and stays in place; Fluidmaster uses a slider on the rubber hose that isn't really infinitely-variable, and doesn't stay in place in my experience. In our old family home on Long Island, I have replaced the fill valves on all seven toilets with various flavors of Korky 528, and they work great. They are also a bit quieter when running than the 400A, which I know because a couple of the toilets had 400As in them when I replaced them.

On the flush valve, I think the Korky flapper is almost the universal winner. Almost every plumber carries the Korky flapper on his truck, and uses it to replace the flapper on any generic flush valve. I have seen a number of pros on here opine that the Korky flapper is better than the Fluidmaster flapper, which is more rigid and a different design. That said, if a flapper closes at the right time, reliably stops the flow and doesn't leak, it's a winner.

Now that many manufacturers have gone to 3" flush valves, a plumber can replace almost any 3" flapper with the Korky universal adjustable flapper, which means fewer parts needing to be on the truck to make instant repairs.

I like the Korky replacement flush valves, which again have gone into many toilets in our own home, because you don't need to cut them, as they have an oversized overflow riser that is twist-to-lock adjustable. They are also made of a nice, heavy plastic, which is sturdy and unlikely to crack.

But others may have different opinions, which is what makes the world go around.

One other thing that's important to me: Korky products are made in Wisconsin, and their customer service people (answering at their call center in Wisconsin) will bend over backwards to give advice or immediately mail out a replacement if a flapper fails within 5 years. They really understand customer service. And I feel I should reward that. Fluidmaster is a famous brand, but a lot of its stuff is hecho en Mexico. Not to be jingoistic, but besides the inherent quality of their products, I feel good about giving Korky my money.
 
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williamp

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Thank you very much wj for your very informative reply. Good stuff to know. Once again, thanks.
 

Rockbmw

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Always a pleasure!!
I just installed the Kohler Cimarron yesterday and this morning noticed those ever-present droplets of water above the water line in the bowl (photo attached) and an occasional very light dribble of water from various spots under the rim, and lastly, micro air bubbles surrounding base of the refill tube and around the AquaPiston base, although did not return with subsequent flushes after I ran my finger over them. I assume the AquaPiston is the issue and unless there is something I am missing, will likely follow willamp's lead and replace it with the Fluidmaster 507 AK. I found terrylove.com after a search for AquaPiston issues. Great forum, and thanks!
 

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pyroism

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I just came home from the hardware store with a new Fluidmaster 507AK for my Kohler toilet; it seems Kohler has screwed up this toilet with their crappy canister type flush valve. Water splashes all over the tank lid when I flush; the tank-to-bowl seal leaks (probably have a sink hole in my yard) and not even a gallon goes down the thing unless you hold the lever down. I would recommend to avoid Kohler and get a normal toilet if that is an option ( might need to go second hand )

I've had problems with Korky fill valves (constantly running shortly after install) so I go with Fluidmaster. Korky flush valves & flappers are good however
 

WJcandee

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I've had problems with Korky fill valves (constantly running shortly after install

Sounds like you know this but the reason that fill valves are "constantly running" is usually that water is leaking past the flapper from the tank and the fill valve is just replacing the lost water. If you mean that it isn't shutting off, then either your water pressure is insanely-high or there is something else in your toilet that isn't properly-configured. It's not common for the Korky 528 to go runaway.
 

steved

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Sounds like you know this but the reason that fill valves are "constantly running" is usually that water is leaking past the flapper from the tank and the fill valve is just replacing the lost water. If you mean that it isn't shutting off, then either your water pressure is insanely-high or there is something else in your toilet that isn't properly-configured. It's not common for the Korky 528 to go runaway.
One thing to check is the fill tube connection as per this Kohler link:
http://helptopics.us.kohler.com/lin...ticle/2205/Tank-Leak-Fill-Valve-Hose-Position
The fill valve will actually siphon the water from the tank slowly if the fill tube is improperly installed. Most people remember the fill tube being loose in the center, but the newer toilets require the fill tube to attach to the center whether it is a flapper or canister setup.
 
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Plumbs Away

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Right, the Kohler flush valve claimed to be a 3" but it tapered down to a 2" hole in the bottom of the tank. Thanks for your post.
Which is best, Fluidmaster or Korky parts?
Kohler did a major disservice to their customer and themselves, when they went back down to the 2" outlet in the bottom of the tank. I have an early 1.6 gpf Class Five Wellworth with the larger outlet hole. The canister was always problematic so I replaced the canister in favor of a Kohler 3" flapper-style valve and it's works flawlessly. Going back to 2" has made Kohler's already questionable flush sluggish. While I haven't found them prone to clog, there is often "resi-doodoo" left behind. A friend has the 1.28 gpf 3:2 canister Wellworth. I replaced her canister with a regular flush valve and a red Korky 2" flapper. While it doesn't flush as strongly as my 1.6 gpf with the 3.25" flapper, it is MUCH better than with the canister.
 

rkt10

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I know this question has been out there for a while, but I also have a Cimarron toilet that, after 4 years of perfect operation, continued to run after the tank was filled. I didn't want to call a plumber who would probably replace the valve with a cheap aftermarket one.
I called Kohler's customer service line (800-456-4537) and got excellent information. I was told that it was possible that the flush valve had some debris somewhere in the line, and that I should flush it out. She sent me an email with an instructions file along with a video.
The process was extremely easy for me. I'm not a real handy type person, but I'm certainly willing to try simple fixes like this. I did find it a little difficult to remove the float valve cap at first, until I re-read the instructions that I should use the arm as leverage. Once I did that, it was easy to remove the cap.
The other minor issue was when I went to re-insert the rubber seal into the cap. I must have not had it properly seeded, and I had to press it into the top of the cap completely before the cap would re-attach properly.
Anyway, the fix worked really well. Here's the video and I'll also attach the file with the printed instructions. http://helptopics.us.kohler.com/lin...lush-Out-the-Fill-Valve-for-Two-Piece-Toilets
 

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Stuckindoors

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This thread was extremely useful to me.

I wanted to add my experience to this thread.
We also have a Kohler Cannister/aqua-piston/class five.

I had issues with with the toliet leaking and after changing the circular valve several times, I opted to change the entire system to the flapper valve.

I ordered the kohler 04-2306 flush valve kit. It cost about $20. This is a ~ three inch flapper valve and I believe the one mentioned above in the post by user “plums away” above. The install was extremely straight forward. The only difficulty I had was that the nut under the water tank is extremely large and the tools I had on hand were not adequate to remove the nut. I needed to dremel out the old valve. Kohler recommends a spud wrench or this purpose.

The remainder of the install was very easy. YouTube videos on how to change the flush valve were helpful.

It only has been a few weeks, but the new valve kit has been working great. If the flapper fails, I hopefully can replace it with an off the shelf korkey three inch universal flapper.

Hopefully this will helpful for someone.
 
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