Kohler Cimarron 3609 or Kohler Cimarron 3589?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by pbishopp, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. pbishopp

    pbishopp New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NY
    I am looking at purchasing a Kohler Cimarron and am going to purchase either the 3589 or the 3609. I have to buy one of these because of various reasons (color etc). It appears that the only difference is that the 3589 is 1.6 gpf and the 3609 is 1.28 gpf.

    In looking at reviews, the 3589 was ranked considerably higher than the 3609 by Consumer Reports mainly because they reported the 3609 was not quite as good at solid waste. Consumer Reports report, however, was done in January of 2009 and may have been based off of the class six flush. Is class six inferior to class five and that is why it was discontinued?

    To confust things a bit more, reviewers ranked the 3609 five stars versus four stars for the 3589, again I suspect some of those reviews were based off of the class six for both. It still doesn't make sense though that a 1.28 would be ranked better than a 1.6.

    The Home Depot reviews have both about the same.

    Common sense would tell me that, all else equal, the 3589 would flush better than the 3609 because of the extra water. Am I missing something?
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2012
  2. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

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    7,349
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    May I suggest you look through the threads on this forum regarding Kohler Cimarron and other Kohler toilets in general before buying? You also might find it helpful to note the many comments regarding the CR record on toilet recommendations. A great many of us regulars on this forum recommend the Toto line which can be reviewed elsewhere on this site. Let end this by pointing out that Kohler toilets are living on their name familiarity and not present day performance.
  3. pbishopp

    pbishopp New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NY
    Gary, thanks for your reply. I have read through the comments on the Cimarrons. Unfortunately, I am restricted by color choice, and Kohler is the only that makes it in the color I need to get.
  4. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,349
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Just be sure you get a good plunger, you'll need it. Good luck.
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    If Kohler makes your color, then you know pretty much what you need.
    The Cimarron has several numbers, but the porcelain is basicly the same.
    Round or elongated bowl, which doesn't affect the working aspects of the tank and bowl.
    The 1.6 should have an edge on the 1.28
    Testing is variable. It could be an individual bowl, and if you test ten bowls you may get 10 different results. Any result over 500 grams on the MaP testing is pretty darn good. Sometimes the manufactures will tweak the bowl to score high on the MaP, but that may or may not be a good thing. There are always other factors besides waste removal. I sell some bowls that sill suck your hair piece off if you get too close, but may be too annoying for residential use at a quiet time of the evening.
    If you have a local rebate for 1.28, that would be my deciding factor.
  6. pbishopp

    pbishopp New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NY
    Thanks, Terry. I appreciate the advice. I think I will go for the 1.6 since it may offer a bit more power for flushing.
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Location:
    New England
    This may not be the actual result! To achieve the lower flush volume, on some toilets all it took was recalibrating the flush valve balance to make sure that the bowl was just properly filled as the tank sensor shut things off. Many older designs overfilled the bowl, and that extra water just went down the drain and had nothing to do with the flush at all.
  8. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,246
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    I installed a Cimmaron in our house about 5 years ago.
    There have been no issues with it at all, but I can see where the bowl wash could be improved.
  9. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Yes.

    The MaP testing "only" tests for one thing. It doesn't do anything for rinsing.
    But then, the test is an engineers test, not a homeowner, wife or small child test. Those people will give you a very different result.
    Most people are at least a "little" concerned about cleaning.
  10. pbishopp

    pbishopp New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NY
    Ok, I put the order in yesterday for the Kohler Cimarron 3589 1.6 gpf. We'll see how it goes.

    Jadnashua, I get what your saying but both of these toilets are relatively new. I mean we aren't comparing a 3.5 gpf Kohler from decades ago to one designed within the past year. The two toilets are in the same model family and released in the same year I believe. That's why I said, all else being equal (flush mechanism, design, etc) I would expect more water would probably equal a better flush.
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,015
    Location:
    New England
    To go from the 1.6g to the 1.28g, often, all it took was the recalibration of the fill valve. This does not apply to the older toilets, although sometimes they tried that, and it didn't work! Each toilet has a design volume for both the tank and the bowl. Putting more water in the bowl than it can hold just wastes it - it won't cause the water level to rise. think of it as a full glass of water...trying to pour more into it just means it overflows.
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