Kitchen Sink Venting

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by massillonmarine, May 4, 2007.

  1. massillonmarine

    massillonmarine New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Massillon, OH
    I bought my house from an auction. This is my first home and I'm only somewhat handy. A guy I went to school with offered to do all my work. Long story short, he quit halfway through. My kitchen sink had no drainage issues whatsoever before he installed the new sink (deeper tubs) and garbage disposal. My sink has drainage issues. It fills up on one side and eventually the other and then they both rise together. He exclaims that all I need to do is wire the disposal and run it....that it would fix all my problems. Well, I wired the disposal and ran it (with water, without water, turning it on and off to create some air movement in the water) and nothing worked. It used to take an hour or so to drain, now it's taking hours to drain. I don't know if all I need is an under-sink vent or there is something wrong with the existing vent (IF THERE IS EVEN ONE!) I don't know cause like I said, I bought this at auction. I could not get any info on the house from the auctioneer, title company, or the city. Posted below is a pic, sorry it's not more well lit. My camera made it too bright with flash and not enough without. Anyway....have at it...I would appreciate some help.

    [​IMG]
  2. kordts

    kordts In the Trades

    Messages:
    551
    Location:
    exurban Chicago
    Number 1: get rid of the trap on the right. I would install a cleanout and rod it out. It might need a vent also.
  3. massillonmarine

    massillonmarine New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Massillon, OH
    Maybe I should have stated this in my original post. Could all help be broken down into Barney-style answers. I'm not hip with the plumbers lingo. :D I do know what a trap is though.
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,279
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    trap

    The trap you do not need is the upside down "P" shaped thing next to the disposer. That by itself will not cause your problem. You probably have a plugged drain somewhere in the building, not necessarily the sink drain, given your piping arrangement, which is preventing the drainage. A plumber should be able to determine where the problem is and correct it.
  5. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    Like has been said, there is nothing in that sink's plumbing that would cause that kind of problem. One side of the sink fills the other simply because the water in neither has any place to go, and that means the drain line is clogged somewhere. With the sink temporarily disconnected, you might be able to use the pressure from a garden hose to blow down into that drain line and dislodge the clog.

    Also, the water supply lines there both look to me like regular PVC, and if so, that is a problem since CPVC should have been used.
  6. Yersmay

    Yersmay Writing, constructionDIY Member

    Messages:
    62
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I'm by no means a pro but I'm posting because I'm curious. Isn't this a good example of an 'S' trap? And isn't that against the rules? If there is no vent to this set up, wouldn't that in itself explain the drainage problem?
  7. massillonmarine

    massillonmarine New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Massillon, OH
    It is PVC, this is what it says on the it.......3/4" Silver-Line PVC-1120 SCH. 40 PR.480 PSI @ 73degrees F ASTM D-1785 (NSF-pw)] 2B SL-M NC 01/17/07

    We went through a ton of leaking/bursting pipes because he bought the wrong glue. Eventually we got the right glue, but he didn't cure the glue long enough which lead to more leaking/bursting pipes. I paid a lot of money to keep redoing these. Currently I have a a super small bubble up leak that has been pretty steady for over a month in the same spot. I'm just waiting until it pops apart so I can re glue it instead of be having to redo it (it's right at a "t" and would be a lot of work to redo). I do have alot of pressure issues with this. I think I have some air in the line, but I'm not sure how to get it out. I have the water shutoff to the tub upstairs cause it just leaks water right out of the tub faucet if I don't. The toilet and sink have water though. I'm so hard up on money that I am trying to avoid a plumber. My old landlord is supposed to come over and do my work for cheap, but he's so busy with his new truck driving job.

    Anywho.....one project at a time. I want to get this sink taken care of, then I'll move on to the water issues. I think I am going to take the drain apart and flush it and possibly get a snake for it. Thanks for the advice, keep it coming. Also, if any of you have the ability to draw on my pic that would be nice. I've seen it done on other posts. What would you use to make this change to the downward P trap?
  8. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    I do not know the issue with the "S" trap, if that is what this is, but I cannot imagine this not working properly:

    Attached Files:

  9. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    Your drain issues are nothing compaired to the problems you could face with a ruptured water line. I would suggest you turn off the water every time you leave the house until it is fixed.
  10. yes it is an S trap. Problems do arise with S traps: they cannot guarantee to hold the seal against sewer gases. The fact that professional plumbers haven't commented on it yet doesn't mean it is an OK installation. The first really big problem was the other P trap, in series with this S trap.

    Some recent threads here have dealt with inserting an AAV and a small stub of pipe to make it into a P trap; please note that although AAV's solve that one big problem with S traps but they (AAV's) are not bulletproof themselves, for a few reasons.

    david
  11. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    Can you explain? In an S-trap, more water than found in a P-trap would have to be moved in order for anything else to get through.
  12. no, sorry. I'm at the limit of my knowledge and i don't want to risk adding more words than may be accurate. I've never had to deal with S traps in my experience, and whatever I could say would essentially be hearsay rehashed and reworded, or internet based learning reworded. I wouldn't want to pollute this thread with posts that say very little. The thread originator may need to know that it's an S trap, and what to do about, so it could be relevant to add more information about it, so don't think I'm against adding information here. Search in this site and elsewhere on the internet and let us know what you learn too. There must be an easy way to explain it to your satisfaction and everyone's. :)

    david
  13. kordts

    kordts In the Trades

    Messages:
    551
    Location:
    exurban Chicago
    S-traps aren't vented. That's why they are illegal. They siphon out too easily. Drains that are double trapped also drain slow. You only need one trap, but it should be vented. After that is done, any other drainage issues can be addressed.
  14. markts30

    markts30 Commercial Plumber

    Messages:
    630
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Take the vertical drain pipe coming from the floor and extend it then glue on a wye for a cleanout and above that a san-t... Above the san tee put an AAV (ie a Studor-Vent)...
    From the san-t branch, pipe to one PTrap and then use a continuous waste kit to tie the sink and disposer into one line....
  15. massillonmarine

    massillonmarine New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Massillon, OH

    Funny that you said that while I was gone at the store. I pretty much surmised on my own that I needed that based on other threads and pics of other installs. I'll let you all know how that goes and I'll post an updated pic when it's all done. I guess I have to wait 24 hrs for the All-purpose pvc glue to cure, right?
  16. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    Yes, but I believe my can also says something about being able to use the plumbing in 30 minutes or so. I usually wait an hour or two before pressurizing supply lines, but I only stop everyone in the house from using drains during my actual assembly ... and I have never had anything leak.
  17. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    I re-arranged your words only because that is how my mind works, Kordts, and if the above still says what you said, I now understand. The "S" can slow the flow, but the "S" also means the line is not going horizontally into a vented line, correct?

    I think I got it, David!
  18. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    This is an ideal situation for a P trap, san T and AAV. Then this will work right.

    After that work on the water lines.
  19. cpvc....and hot water ... question....

    actually, you could leave that whole drain line alone
    under the sink if you so wished.... , it
    isnt right and it isnt pretty....but it will work,,,,
    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    like everyone already said you go big troubles in
    your water lines.....big troubles.....


    you really are not supposed to use that white cpve plastic
    on anything but COLD water lines.....or so I am told....


    They dont even want you to use cpvc on the relief valves
    comming off the water heaters either....claim it cant handle the heat...

    . I dont see a problem off the t+p valve myself...its only a non pressurized drain...
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    but my question about cpvc.....

    I dont think the problem is in the actual pipe....

    The problem with it is at the glued joints???
    They cannot with stand the constant heat and presure....??

    Or is the problem at the connections to things like
    shown under this sink...

    .hot line male adapter to the
    brass conncetion....does it snap off in the threads???

    what has everyone seen im their travels through
    this plumbing wonderland???
  20. massillonmarine

    massillonmarine New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Massillon, OH


    I really haven't been around my house to do much, but I did fix this horizontal tube thing. It didn't help. I'm not sure if I should do the work to install the undersink vent or if I should just call a plumber.

    [​IMG]

    Let's not get side-tracked by the water line thing. One step at a time. Do you think I should run drain cleaner into the drain first before I attempt to do any undersink venting? Every pipe pictured is completely clear, I should know, I took the entire thing apart.
    Last edited: May 6, 2007
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