Kitchen renovation and stub out

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Bucky Badger, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. Bucky Badger

    Bucky Badger New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Hi all,
    It's my first post and this is a great site with a wealth of information.
    I've done a search with the stub out topic and now understand what the inspector was talking about.
    I'm doing a kitchen renovation with a contractor and I hope to gain more info besides what the contractor is telling me.

    Nothing has been installed yet, just demolition and wiring and plumbing. The plumbing inspector mentioned that the stub out drain will need to be lowered if I'm going with a bigger sink. The wiring was subcontracted with an electrician. The plumbing has been done by the carpenter, not sure if he's a license plumber as well, although the contractor has a reputation of doing things by code.

    The stub out drain is currently 21 inches above the old plywood. This height will change with a 0.5 inch of new plywood on top of old plywood. A travertine floor will be the floor but I doubt it will be tiled underneath the cabinets. I'm planning to use a 9 inch deep undermount sink at a height of 34.5 inches of cabinets with no granite factored in yet at the top of those cabinets. I will not install a garbage disposal.

    The carpenter/plumber is waiting for the inspection so I haven't spoken with him yet.
    1.My question is will this set up work?

    2.What is the ideal height difference from the stub out drain from the bottom of the sink?

    3.What sink depth will work in an undermount set up with my configuration without having to cut the cast iron pipe and lower the stub out drain?

    Appreciate any helpful info.
  2. Sean Beck

    Sean Beck Plumber

    Messages:
    68
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    I would usually rough in a kitchen drain at around 18 inches with the water lines at around 21 inches. 21 inches for your drain does sound too high. Check the specs of the sink and countertops, but you should be safe with 18 inches.
  3. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,242
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    YOU may not have a disposer now, but someday you, or a future owner, MIGHT want one and your existing drain is going to very marginal to even install a simple basket strainer, if you get a "deep/long" one. I prefer 16" OR LESS for the distance above the floor. You can always extend the drain lines to fit a low connection, but if it is too high you are out of luck.
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,413
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I also like 16", which leaves room for a future disposer. I like options.
  5. Bucky Badger

    Bucky Badger New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I was concern as well for future upgrades. I think you guys are right and will bring it down to at least 16 inches. The inspector said it's not very difficult to do. What's the best way to test if the new lowered stub out doesn't leak since there is nothing there other than the stub out and the shut off valves. I'd like to give it a good drain test for peace of mind while all the pipes are visible before all the dry wall is installed and covers the pipes. I would not want to see a slow leak after all the dry wall is installed.
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,242
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; What's the best way to test if the new lowered stub out doesn't leak

    Do it like we do. Make a good connection and it will not leak.
  7. Bucky Badger

    Bucky Badger New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thanks fellas for the replies, I appreciate it.
    What is standard practice in replacing a cast iron t fitting?
    The current cast iron t fitting is original and has been there for over 40 years and no problems.
    I want to use a similar cast iron t fitting. The contractor left some supplies but I'm not sure yet if these are the final materials he'll be using since it looks like the t fitting is 1.5" all around.
    See pic.
    If he uses pvc, should I request for cast iron or even ABS? Is there any advantage in using either pvc or ABS? I guess what I'm getting at is what would you use in your own home in this scenario?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,413
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You may have a 2.0" x 1.5" x 1.5" santee in the wall.
    I would replace with same sizing.

    PVC is fine, and the couplings you show are the right ones, as long as they are sized correctly.
    That santee looks to be a 1.5"

    I like to stub out new copper, and after the wall is up, new 1/4 turn shutoffs.
  9. Bucky Badger

    Bucky Badger New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Yes, you are correct Terry, the santee is 2"x 1.5" x 1.5" in the wall. The PVC, I was a bit concerned at first using the PVC knowing the cast iron lasted so long.
    As far as the 1/4 shutoffs, I actually had those replace 2 months ago because the old ones leaked and was still on the fence of doing the entire kitchen renovation. I didn't even notice they weren't ball valves because I was so happy just to stop the leak. I'm surprise the plumber didn't recommend the 1/4 turn shut off valves.
  10. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,242
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    You would need a 2 x 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 "Tucker tee", or a union, or a transition coupling, to use a cast iron tee.
  11. Bucky Badger

    Bucky Badger New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Well, it looks like the all around 1.5" pvc santee was the one installed. I wasn't around when it was installed, I thought I made it clear with the contractor to install the 2x1.5x1.5 santee, same as the original. I hope this is OK.

    BTW, now that 1.5" cast iron vent is resting on the pvc slip coupling, should I be concerned with the overall weight of the cast iron vent?
    I can't see how extensive the cast iron vent system is configured cause it's behind a wall.
    The inspector didn't mention anything about securing the vent above the santee. I'm assuming this is up to code.
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