kitchen p-trap to wall connection

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by chakangt, Mar 6, 2008.

  1. chakangt

    chakangt New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Okay, 1st off thanks to everyone who responds to questions as i have learned a lot so far by perusing the postings....

    but I still have a problem.

    In the pictures you will see my kitchen sink drain pipe feeding into the wall (into a sanitary tee?)

    The problem is that the "T" that the pipe is attached to is screwed into other things on both sides (above and below). Well, I was washing dishes the other day and both connections have now failed (in the closer pic you can see the lower one has failed right above the elbow... and in the wide you can see the upper failing point. How does one repair this? get a new T an a coupler? above? and use the elbow that already exists below? I am hoping a picture is worth a thousand words....

    Is this something I could do myself? ( i have installed many sinks (not this one) and disposals, a hot water heater and an expansion tank on my boiler)

    very many thanks to you all....

    Attached Files:

  2. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    It is hard to tell where the fitting below the T is attached to.
    If it were me, I would remove as much galvanized as possible. These fittings failing is a clear indication that the rest may fail soon.

    You could be opening up a can of worms if you are not sure about your ability to tackle this repair..
  3. chakangt

    chakangt New Member

    Messages:
    6
    is it possible the whole thing is galvanized? I hadn't really looke far up the wall because i don't have good access to it. Is it more probable just the connections between the T and the rest of the pipes are galvanized? i know you can't tell, but i guess i had heard they don't use galvanized in homes very much.

    does anyone have a picture of what a normal installation should look like similar to mine?
  4. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I don't have a pic, but I can tell you that galvanized is not forgiving when it comes to drainage. the venting can probably stay, but any part of the galvazed that has water running through it should be gone.

    you can use PVC, ABS , or copper with some sort of No-hub couplings to join any dis-similiar materials. (its probably easier for the DIY to use PVC or ABS piping)
  5. greekguy7

    greekguy7 Member

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Illinois
    If you cut out a section of that rotted vertical plumbing with the intent to replace it with some pvc and a couple transition couplings, would you be concerned with supporting the old plumbing still there after a section of it is cut out?
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,255
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    drain

    A plumber would know how to cut out and replace the bad fittings, but it would be difficult to tell you how to do it. It is a matter of experience with galvanized. One thing you can be sure of is that since this section is galvanized, the entire sytem above it is also, and the pipes below it also until they transition to cast iron.
  7. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Part of the problem that a DIY'er has that he/she is not aware of the fittings and or transition couplings that are available. I haven't seen a transition coupling that will fitt a fitting hub properly. For the most part they are designed to fit actual outside pipe diameters..

    Judging by the close proximity of your fittings to each other and any allowable space needed to use transition couplings, you may end up removing the entire assembly , right up to your cast iron stack (depending on how close it may be to these connections.

    I'm sure most of the folks here would agree that you may end up seeking a pro to come in and asses the problem on site.

    Hypethetical situation: what if the galvinized piping that is tapped into a cast iron stack shears off flush to the 1 1/2" hub? You will have 2 choices.
    1) try and remove the existing galvanized threads out of the tapping, or

    2) remove the cast iron Wye out of the stack and start over.


    Slution number 1 is not recommended for the DIY'er unless you are confident enough that you can do it. You could potentially really make a mess of the thread, if you have never done this before.(its hard enough taking galvi from galvi , taking galvi out if cast iron is another issue.)

    The problem with the second choice could be, if you have another fixture connected immidiately before or after your Wye that you need to remove. In that case, you would be making your small repair into an, almost major , renovation.

    Just a scenario that could happen.
  8. that one is mean, mean , mean

    we run into this occcasionally, and it brings me
    to tears when you clean out a drain and the pipe starts to leak


    all you can really do is attack the drain from down below

    go into the basement or crawl space with a sharp sawzall
    blade made to cut metal....


    cut off that galvanized pipe below all this trouble....

    then re-route the drain through the bottom of the cabinet
    drilling a hole in the base of the cabinet.....and running
    pvc up through the kitchen cabinet

    and then cut the line off above that tee and re-attach the vent line to your new pvc drain line....

    you will need a couple of no-hubs or fernco fittings
    and a good assortment of PVC elbows, 45s and pipe


    and put a clean out in the line while you are at it
    because the drain line will surely stop up when you vibrate that line when you cut it.......

    get a couple extra steel cutting blades becasue you
    will probably need them


    please take heed that this can be a rather grissley event..

    the sawzall shows no mercy
    when it slings off old sewage drain sludge all over the place

    landing mostly in your face...and hair..


    its something like pulling a mixing beater out of
    the mix and it splattering all over the place

    except you are playing in sewage.......


    perhaps you ought to get a plumber.....


    have fun
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2008
  9. chakangt

    chakangt New Member

    Messages:
    6
    I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who responded... I think i am going to call my plumber and leave the situation in his capable hands. I think it might be more than I care to take on at the moment.

    THanks again,
    Dave
  10. srdenny

    srdenny Plumbing Contractor

    Messages:
    361
    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    That sure looks like a Durham combo and not a tee to me.
  11. rudytheplbr

    rudytheplbr 36 Journeyman Plbr

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    Removing Cast Iron (Durham) fittings`

    The best way to remove old Durham fittings. if you have the room to swing is a 5# single jack and a reg hammer back up. A few blows and the fitting starts to fall apart. Start at the low point of the waste riser and move on up.

    Replace with ABS or PVC DWV fittings and No-Hub connectors. :):)

    Rudythplbr
  12. chakangt

    chakangt New Member

    Messages:
    6
    So is it feasible to to replace this myself with new durham fittings? or with the coupling?

    or, is it better to leave it to someone who knows more than i do and has the appropriate tools. In addition this is in a very tight space, and i have no idea how far the corrosion goes up or down.

    I know these are subjective questions, but i am trying to gauge the difficulty of this job...

    For example, to replace the T and then screw it onto the existing threads of one of the existing pipes, do i need to be able to thread a pipe? or can i buy pre-threaded lengths of galvalnized to save one of the joints...

    or should i put couplers on both sides of the T and call it a day...

    and how do i support the column in a really confined space?
  13. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    This will have to be determined before anybody can say what you can do at bare minimum.

    It is feasible for you to do it yourself, but I highly recommend to eliminate any galvanized that is being used for a drain. If you do a patch, you are only buying time until the next peice rots away.
  14. chakangt

    chakangt New Member

    Messages:
    6
    I imagine the whole stack is galvanized... certainly from that point downward is... and it looks as though going up as far as i can see is also galvanized... so that means a whole stack replacement? i just heard the can of worms open...

    i imagine the advice would be to nip this thing in the bud while i can... right?
  15. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    The stack is probably okay... You would have to inspect it to be sure but generally the drain portion is what rots out. Usually horizontal runs first, then vertical then finally much later the stack.
  16. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    As redwood suggested, your stack is probably fine, but you will need to tackle the galvanized branch line and determine how it connects to the stack. Your stack would probably be made of cast iron


    "Nipping it in the bud" while you can, is a good thing
  17. chakangt

    chakangt New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Great... talked to a plumber today and he will be out soon.... Thanks for all of your advice on this.

    I think i will try and watch on this one... and maybe learn just enough to be dangerous on the next one!
  18. greekguy7

    greekguy7 Member

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Illinois
    Sounds good. Always a good idea to know what your limits are before making a huge job out of something.

    Let us know how things go....
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