Kitchen in basement - two circuits

Users who are viewing this thread

J Blow

Member
Messages
116
Reaction score
1
Points
18
Location
South Dakota
Hi, all. I have read numerous threads and I think I have the answer but I just want to be sure. I'm finishing my basement to include a kitchen area. I had an electrician do the wiring and now after finishing the sheetrock, I'm wiring outlets, switches, etc. The kitchen has two circuits with one feeding the fridge (and a couple outlets) and another just outlets. On the counter top there's an outlet on each side of the sink. The two outlets are on different circuits. It only seems logical that I need a GFCI receptacles on each outlet, or each circuit. Since there is a wire coming in and one going out on each counter top outlet, I assume this is closest to the box and all other receptacles on this circuit are downstream. Does putting the gfci outlet here sound like the correct move?

Thanks.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,796
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
Since there is a wire coming in and one going out on each counter top outlet, I assume this is closest to the box and all other receptacles on this circuit are downstream.
If you cannot follow the wiring, and if you want a outlet GFCI to protect more than one duplex outlet, you will need to test to make sure that the others are de-powered when the GFCI trips.
 

J Blow

Member
Messages
116
Reaction score
1
Points
18
Location
South Dakota
If you cannot follow the wiring, and if you want a outlet GFCI to protect more than one duplex outlet, you will need to test to make sure that the others are de-powered when the GFCI trips.


Yes, turns out this is exactly what I did...well, I actually first determined it with a continuity test. I'm not exactly sure why I have two circuits but I was able to determine that putting a gfci on each outlet on the counter top made it so all kitchen outlets were protected downstream.

Thanks, all!
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,770
Reaction score
1,190
Points
113
Location
New England
Code requires two, independent circuits for the kitchen counter, and each one must be protected via GFCI (and in some places, AFCI, too). There's also a maximum separation between them that must be adhered to. Many kitchen appliances have shorter cords than many other things like lamps, etc., so you need a shorter cord (plus, they often have significant loads from their heating circuits, so a shorter cord handles the load better without huge costs).
 

Widgit Maker

Member
Messages
173
Reaction score
21
Points
18
Location
Alexandria, Virginia
I assume this is closest to the box and all other receptacles on this circuit are downstream.
That may or may not be correct.
A GFI outlet may be wired to protect it self only or it may be wired to protect it self and anything down stream. Unless you have other outlets that are within 6 ft of the sink I would wire them to protect it self only. To do that you connect the two white wires together and add a pigtail. Connect the two black wires together and add a pigtail. Connect the pigtails to the line terminals. If you want to protect an outlet down stream, connect the white and black of the power in cable to the line terminals and connect the white and black of the power out cables to the load terminals.
You do not want to GFI protect a refrigerator.
 

J Blow

Member
Messages
116
Reaction score
1
Points
18
Location
South Dakota
Great information! Thanks. With that, I now know I'll have to go back and rewire the one gfci so the refrigerator isn't protected as it now is. One of the other outlets is also protected unnecessarily, too, as it's in the kitchen area but more than 6 feet from the water.

So, this has me thinking about the bathroom. It's a similar circumstance as I have 2 outlets on the counter top. Since it's a single circuit am I ok to have one gfci outlet protecting them both or do I need 2 gfci outlets?
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,770
Reaction score
1,190
Points
113
Location
New England
Code requires two separate circuits for the counter as I understand it, and I think you'll find all of the receptacles there must be GFCI protected, regardless of their proximity to the sink. And, while some will disagree, GFCI, at least a modern one, should not have an issue with any appliance. Look at it this way...the only time a GFCI should trip is if the power supplying the thing becomes imbalanced...i.e., some of it is leaking to ground. A properly working appliance should never have leakage to ground. In some places, a GFCI is required for all circuits, along with an arc fault circuit interrupter. If your refrigerator trips a GFCI, it is broken...that doesn't mean it won't work. What's worse, losing some food in the thing, or your life?

FWIW, I think I have about 6 circuits in my kitchen: two for the counter, one for the frig, one for the DW, one for the vent hood, one for the stove, and maybe one more, I'm pretty sure the lighting is separate which includes some overhead, under cabinet, and can lighting. At the time of installation, only those on the counter required GFCI. Code has gotten more strict since then.
 
Last edited:

J Blow

Member
Messages
116
Reaction score
1
Points
18
Location
South Dakota
I think I have the kitchen figured out...is a bathroom the same? I have two circuits in my bathroom, too. One for lights/fan and one for two outlets that are both above the countertop. Currently I have a gfci with the second running off the gfci so it is protected. I'm wondering if I need two gfci outlets or can I leave it as is...or maybe I actually need two circuits? That seems extreme for the bathroom, though.

Thanks, again.
 

J Blow

Member
Messages
116
Reaction score
1
Points
18
Location
South Dakota
Or maybe your first paragraph was in response to the bathroom but I thought it was about the kitchen still?
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,796
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
Plain GFCI outlets are pretty cheap. Rather than cascading, you might want to just have one GFCI per duplex outlet. Then there is no problem trying to find the reset button associated with an outlet -- the button is right there.

If the boxes are tight, that could be a reason to avoid putting a GFCI in each box. But if there is room, separate has its pluses.

I would avoid having my fridge, freezer, and especially my sump pump on a GFCI... If I felt I had to for some reason, then I would want that outlet to have its own GFCI so that an event at a different outlet would not cut off my critical load.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,770
Reaction score
1,190
Points
113
Location
New England
You're only required to have one 20A circuit in the bathroom, but you could have more. The only one that is required to be GFCI protected is the receptacles, not the lights or fan, but you could share. IMHO, it's useful to have more than one receptacle in the bathroom what with the various devices that tend to proliferate there - electric toothbrush, shaver, etc. On my master bath remodel, I had a heated towel bar and an air tub installed, and each of those has a GFCI circuit breaker. Neither one is critical where having a reset needed to be close, and especially on the tub, would not have been easy to access unless I had one installed outside the tub/shower in a box which I didn't feel was necessary for either access or aesthetically. FWIW, it's been nearly 15-years, and neither of those circuits has tripped. I did have the receptacle trip once, and for what I was doing, it should have! Otherwise, my experience with the things over the last 30-years is they have not been an issue except on one, where I had some intermittent problem with the wiring in the wall, and once I ran new wire (probably had a nail or something piercing the cable), has been fine since. IOW, the only time I've had one trip is when it should have. If you have something that trips one, that device has a problem that would not pass UL safety testing. Now, AFCI, get more problem reports, but mostly from the first generation devices.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks