Kenmore water softener problem

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NPT

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I have a Kenmore UltraSoft 175 water softener and have a problem that I've not been able to solve. It is suppose to be an on demand softener but I can't get it to automatically soften the water. If I push the recharge button and select either "Recharge tonight" or "Recharge now" it will run and generates soft water but it will never do it automatically. The hardness of the water in this area is 8 and I've set it to 15 hoping that would make it run automatically but no luck. Here are a few things I've checked.
  1. Went into diagnostic mode and checked to make sure that the meter is operating and it counted up just as it is suppose to.
  2. Checked the SR code and it is set to SR25 and that is correct according to the manual
  3. Check the valve operation by advancing it thru the different stages as described in the user manual and all that seem to work.
  4. Check the salt level setting which was fine. I also checked to make sure there wasn't a salt bridge but knew there probably wasn't since it generates soft water if I make it generate manually.
There has never been an error code showing on the display so I'm kind of at a loss as to what to try next. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!!!
 

ENIGMA-2

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My initial suspicion would revolve around a failed turbine. The turbine is located in the water outlet, and spins due to the flow of water passing by it. If it is not reading properly, the control unit (timer or computer, whatever you want to call it) will not keep track of the total water flowing through the unit and therefor never reach a point where enough water has passed through to set the flag for a regeneration.

There's an easy test to determine it it's working properly. Push select and hold until you get 000, then turn on the nearest cold water faucet. If the turbine is working properly, the counter will start to count up, 000 to 200 (which is one gallon).

If it "is" counting ok, the control unit is suspect.

If it "is not" counting up, either the turbine is faulty, (most common as it's mechanical) or the harness is faulty (or possibly not connected to the softener outlet or control). It's possible that the harness connector is corroded. A quick chect can confirm.

You can pick up a turbine on ebay for about $15. Harness is probably about the same price. Control panel can be rebuilt for about $100 (company advertises this service on ebay). Either way, simple test and fix.

Until you get fixed, I would run manual regeneration about every 4 days to ensure you keep the resin recharged.

To physically check the turbine, put the softener into bypass, press and hold the regeneration control to start a manual regeneration. This will release all the water pressure inside the softener and piping. Keep pressing the regeneration button until it has cycled back to the service position. Pull the two plastic clips at the bypass and carefully slide the softener out of the water connection.
You can then remove the turbine from the water outlet. Comes in two pieces, the turbine enclosure and the turbine itself. The turbine may be rust stained (no big deal), but intact. It spins on the metal shaft in the turbine enclosure. Should spin easily.
 
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NPT

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My initial suspicion would revolve around a failed turbine. The turbine is located in the water outlet, and spins due to the flow of water passing by it. If it is not reading properly, the control unit (timer or computer, whatever you want to call it) will not keep track of the total water flowing through the unit and therefor never reach a point where enough water has passed through to set the flag for a regeneration.

There's an easy test to determine it it's working properly. Push select and hold until you get 000, then turn on the nearest cold water faucet. If the turbine is working properly, the counter will start to count up, 000 to 200 (which is one gallon).

If it "is" counting ok, the control unit is suspect.

If it "is not" counting up, either the turbine is faulty, (most common as it's mechanical) or the harness is faulty (or possibly not connected to the softener outlet or control). It's possible that the harness connector is corroded. A quick chect can confirm.

You can pick up a turbine on ebay for about $15. Harness is probably about the same price. Control panel can be rebuilt for about $100 (company advertises this service on ebay). Either way, simple test and fix.

Until you get fixed, I would run manual regeneration about every 4 days to ensure you keep the resin recharged.

To physically check the turbine, put the softener into bypass, press and hold the regeneration control to start a manual regeneration. This will release all the water pressure inside the softener and piping. Keep pressing the regeneration button until it has cycled back to the service position. Pull the two plastic clips at the bypass and carefully slide the softener out of the water connection.
You can then remove the turbine from the water outlet. Comes in two pieces, the turbine enclosure and the turbine itself. The turbine may be rust stained (no big deal), but intact. It spins on the metal shaft in the turbine enclosure. Should spin easily.
Thanks....it counts fine so it might the control unit.
 

Mialynette2003

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How old is the unit? It could be that the capacity is lower not allowing as many days between regens. Do you have a test kit? I've had customers test thest water on a daily basis to determine when it got hard and then calculated when it should regen.
 

ENIGMA-2

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The Kenmore units measure the amount of water that passes through it and, based on the hardness value entered, sets a regeneration for the next morning (usually 2 am).
They are not a timer-type of controller.

It's the turbine that measures the number of gallons used to trigger the computer (control) to set a flag for regeneration the following am.
 

Mialynette2003

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The Kenmore units measure the amount of water that passes through it and, based on the hardness value entered, sets a regeneration for the next morning (usually 2 am).
They are not a timer-type of controller.

It's the turbine that measures the number of gallons used to trigger the computer (control) to set a flag for regeneration the following am.
This is correct, but if you lose some resin over the years, the unit may not compensate for the loss correctly and you will get hard water just prior to a regen. This is what I was trying to see to determine if the controller is bad. Sounds as though the OP knows the turbine is working fine.
 

ENIGMA-2

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Ok, I see what you were coming from. As I understood the op his problem wasn't getting soft water, rather the machine wasn't going into automatic generation. Does a manual ok, gets soft water, but he needs to run a manual regen.
 

ENIGMA-2

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One other thing comes to mind. You didn't mention it, but nothing to loose.
Try unplugging the controller long enough for the control to lose its charge. I don't know how long but I would suspect a couple of hours would do it.
Thinking maybe it needs a reboot?

Also, what if you were to change the control to SR26, or one of the other set ups encoded in the control.

As you did not get a ERR05, seems that the control is working ok.
 
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ENIGMA-2

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BTW, Sears usually warrants their softener's controls for three years. Any chance your machine is less than three years old?

I had to replace my control after eight years due to a power spike (thunderstorm), after I laid out $160 for a new one, I plugged the transformer into a recept-based spike protector.
Have had several lighting hits since (lost cordless phone, business computer and other small stuff) but the softener was protected.
I really recommend using one of the spike protectors' on softener's which are electronics based (vs straight mechanical timers which are pretty much immune to spikes).
 

NPT

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How old is the unit? It could be that the capacity is lower not allowing as many days between regens. Do you have a test kit? I've had customers test thest water on a daily basis to determine when it got hard and then calculated when it should regen.
The unit is 7-8 year old
 

ENIGMA-2

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What are your settings for hardness and regen time?

I wonder if changing the regen time to noon (or some other time you could monitor), and changing the hardness to 200 (or as high as it will allow) to trigger a regen by running a few gallons of water.

Run water until the "regen tonight" flag displays. (Of course "night" will take place a only a hour or less as you had changed the regen time). If this does not trigger a regen flag, and it's actually counting water flow, it's the control.
 

Matthew Candido

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Hello,
I am having trouble with my Kenmore Ultrsoft 100 and looking for some help.
My profession in Swimming pool equipment installation, repair and warranty so I have plenty ability and filtration, backwash knowledge to learn and fix this unit. I know it would be easy to just replace it with a new one but my "need to figure it out" mind won't allow that.

Current status-
Freshly cleaned brine tank, clear houses with no leaks, motor works during regeneration. Resin beads removed, inspected and cleaned and pipe installed with no cracks in screens and properly set to the bottom of the resin tank. Valve in proper position.

Problem-

The softer regenerates ( can here the valve motor turn and fill, flush) every night. It uses salt but there is never any soft water. Grain setting is on 45 which is more than adequate in our area.

I can't find any info of what to look for and inspect during each part of the regeneration cycle which Im pretty sure something is not happening properly and causing this problem. I have verified that water fills the brine tank on the first part of the cycle. Beyond that Im not sure what to look for.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! The unit is still in great shape and I don't want to replace a good unit if it happens to be an easy fix. Im not afraid to take it completely apart and put it back together.

Thanks
 

Reach4

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Unlikely the problem, but make sure the bypass is in service position. That would not explain the every-night regeneration attempt.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/85842/Kenmore-100-150.html?page=18#manual

I would try to see if the injector/eductor is clean. See if there is a screen that is clogged. Yet those seem unlikely to be the problems either, since the water has been sucked out by the end of the regeneration attempt.
If you replace this, the units with the separate brine tanks are more often able to be repaired.
 

ditttohead

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System regenerates every night? Your system is very undersized. Regenerations should happen ideally no more often than every 6 days and up to 30 is acceptable.

Are you on your own well? 45 GPG is a little high for most municipal supplies but not unheard of.
 

Mialynette2003

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Check the seal point between the valve and the distributor tube. Also, put unit into a regen and advance it to the rinse cycle. Test the drain water. Let us know if it's hard water or soft.
 

Matthew Candido

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Check the seal point between the valve and the distributor tube. Also, put unit into a regen and advance it to the rinse cycle. Test the drain water. Let us know if it's hard water or soft.
System regenerates every night? Your system is very undersized. Regenerations should happen ideally no more often than every 6 days and up to 30 is acceptable.

Are you on your own well? 45 GPG is a little high for most municipal supplies but not unheard of.
Unlikely the problem, but make sure the bypass is in service position. That would not explain the every-night regeneration attempt.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/85842/Kenmore-100-150.html?page=18#manual

I would try to see if the injector/eductor is clean. See if there is a screen that is clogged. Yet those seem unlikely to be the problems either, since the water has been sucked out by the end of the regeneration attempt.
If you replace this, the units with the separate brine tanks are more often able to be repaired.


Father in law ended up in the hospital and now doing well after I posted this. I will check all these today and get back to you. Thank you! In central california out water is absurd at times. Hopefully this rain helps in a couple years. We are on municipal.
 

Matthew Candido

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Check the seal point between the valve and the distributor tube. Also, put unit into a regen and advance it to the rinse cycle. Test the drain water. Let us know if it's hard water or soft.
Which cycle would be the rinse cycle? Any guess on number of turns of the valve to get there?
 

Matthew Candido

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Check the seal point between the valve and the distributor tube. Also, put unit into a regen and advance it to the rinse cycle. Test the drain water. Let us know if it's hard water or soft.
Father in law ended up in the hospital and now doing well after I posted this. I will check all these today and get back to you. Thank you! In central california out water is absurd at times. Hopefully this rain helps in a couple years. We are on municipal.


Tap water comes in at 15 grains

I removed the valve from the tube to check the seal point. The o-ring that is supposed to seal into the bottom of the valve bottoms plate and have the distributor tube run through it was pushed down around the collar of the screen which the distributor tube runs through first before sealing into the valve. So there was no direct seal of the distributor tube to the valve which let water through to the screen area and top of resin tank when it was meant to run to the bottom of the tank through the distributor tube. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure this will resolve my problem.

I tested the rinse cycle drain water after resetting the oring and it was soft water. 2 grains. Not sure if that matters now because I'm guessing from the o ring misplacement that the brine was sitting on top of the tank which is why I would get 1 minute of soft water and then hard. This rinse should be hard water? we'll see if I get soft water tonight. I set the grains setting to 20.
 

Matthew Candido

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Just to confirm. The softener is fixed and working like a champ! The distributor tube oring was the problem. Thank you for everyone's help! You've helped me make my wife very happy to get this resolved. On to the next project!
 

Mialynette2003

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Problem is that the o ring was in place when the system was installed (you had soft water). So how did the o ring get out of place? Simple, the distributor tube moved out of the way allowing the o ring to move then the distributor came back up. Have seen this several times before. The distributor needs to be replaced. The tube Sears uses is not glued in place but rather snapped. These snaps don't hold which allows the tube to collapse into the bottom basket. The fast rinse will push the tube back into position so when you take the head off the tube is in place but not the o ring.
 
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