Just found out about the low flow "mandate"

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by galevin, May 1, 2006.

  1. galevin

    galevin New Member

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    2
    I had a slight leak around a toilet (wax ring going bad) and a buddy talked me into replacing the toilet while I was replacing the new wax ring. It was a good toilet with a little age, but what the heck, I replaced it with a new Jacuzzi 1.6 g/f toilet that I bought at Loews. What a piece of junk. I guess its the flow rate I'm complaining about. Is there any way to increase the flow rate to the flow rates of yesteryear (pre-government ban on high flow toilets). If I would have known about this 1.6g/f crap, I never would have replaced a great older toilet. I don't care about water conservation. I have well water that is free and what do I do about getting a decent flush again? I'd hate to scrap this low flush toilet as I just paid $150 for it. What is a solution that won't cost an arm an leg. (Wife not to happy about the new WATER SAVER toilet).
  2. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    Some models are susceptible to tank adjustments that will increase the flush volume.

    Take the cover off and observe a standard flush. Then see if you can get more water out of the tank by holding the flapper control open.

    If you can get more water out of the tank, then you can try to rig up some way to keep the flapper open. On my American Standard, there is a little marshmallow size float that I moved down to the flapper where it will keep the flapper open.

    You can try it by holding down the handle to keep the flapper open until all of the water is out of the tank. If that works, then you can find an automatic solution.
  3. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    Trying to get more water out of the tank is usually counterproductive. The toilet may double flush, but if the first load did not go down, the second flush only increases the possibility of overflow.


    At $150 you bought a middle of the road to low end toilet. There are many good toilets available in both pressure-assist and gravity flush types. They will usually run $300 ++
  4. Lancaster

    Lancaster New Member

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    164
    Why not just put the original one back and sell the new one in the Pennysaver? Let me guess,you condemned it to the landfill before you road-tested the new one.Theres a lesson there.If nothing else,toilet bowls make excellent planters.
  5. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

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    The Box stores sell low end toilets that rarely perform well. There were many problems with the new low volume toilets in the beginning, but the better brands have vastly improved their models. You should review the report Terry has link from the home page.
  6. plumber1

    plumber1 Plumber

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    There was no reason at all to replace that toilet.
  7. galevin

    galevin New Member

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    2
    Yeah, I'm sorry I replaced the toilet. I did it due to ignorance. If I would have knownabout the 1.6g/f dictorial (or was it dicktorial?) mandate, I never would have replaced it. I dumped my old toilet in a dumpster and watched it split in half. At least I'm going to tell about 20 of my friends to make sure they don't make that mistake. Water conservation sux just as gas conservation does. Hell, can't go nowhere anymore due to gas conservation and can't use the crapper due to "water conservation", what's a man's gonna do? Food conservation must be next for us to undergo.
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Not all toilets are created equal as you found out. FWIW, check out some of the toilet performance test results on Terry's home page. Not sure if yours is on it, but it might be interesting on how it stacked up.
  9. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    "can't use the crapper due to "water conservation", what's a man's gonna do? Food conservation must be next for us to undergo."

    If you implement the Food Conservation you will minimize the need for the crapper.

    An outhouse is a very effective and environmentally friendly substitute for a toilet, and it never needs to be flushed.

    And if you make your deposits directly on the earth and spade them in, or collect them and spread them in the spring, you can grow a great crop of carrots and parsnips, and kill and eat the deer that come to eat your corn.
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  10. Spokaneman

    Spokaneman New Member

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    Location:
    Spokane WA
    The habitat for humanity surplus store around here takes in and resells 3.5 gallion toilets (that's where I took mine). They say they can sell them as fast as they get them. If you have one in your area, you might try that.

    Could you clean up the "new" toilet and return it and pay a little more for a good one? My experience is that Lowes will take anything back if you have a ligitimate complaint.

    Get the one that says it will take 24 golf balls in one flush.

  11. NO! DO NOT get that one! That's the American Standard Champion and it ain't nothin' but trouble. It seems that maybe one in 500 is happy with their Champion. Why it's even still on the market is mind boggling.

    As for buying at Lowes, the Kohler Cimarron is supposed to be decent, except for bowl rinse issues. If going the Lowes route, I personally would buy a Kohler Wellworth and remove the styrofoam float from the flapper. Of course, this completely negates water conservation efforts but it does allow what was previously known as "normal" use of the toilet.
  12. Mike50

    Mike50 DIY Senior Member

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    699
    Location:
    Southern California
    Why would you tell him to sabotage a 400 dollar piece of equipment (which will be unreturnable BTW)
    Especially before he even has a chance to *find out for himself* if a good 1.6 flusher works well...or not.

    From nearly all the professionals I've spoken to- the engineering is so good on the latest generations it compensates for the lost water volume.
    In plenty of cases the new designed 1.6 flushers are *more* efficient.

    But guess what? Apparently, he (unknowingly) bought a cheap toilet or got a lemon.
    so he thinks they all suck. They don't DC_HomePlumber.

    Both my New TOTO & KOHLER work better than both older high volume toilets.

    I'm Not a plumber nor do I play one on TV...
    This fellow may just take your advice thinking you are a plumber...
    Not good.
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  13. Chill, Mike. The Wellworth doesn't cost $400. It's barely over $100. The general consensus on this forum in previous posts (and by all the self-professed pro plumbers on this site) is that the Wellworth does not meet the challenge. My personal experience with it has been fine and I also found that removing the styrofoam float from the flapper gives it a full, old-fashioned flush. Removing this float is by no means sabotage; you can put it back on.

    I simply offered this information as an alternative for someone who might not want to fork out $300 and might not be concerned with conserving water, as was indicated by the original poster in this thread. His is also not the first bad feedback I've heard about the Jacuzzi toilet. It uses an oversized flush valve (3+ inches) as all of the new "super toilets" do but apparently is lacking in bowl engineering.

    Anyone with reasonable intelligence will realize from what I post here that I'm not a professional. By the same token, I am not ignorant and everything I post here I back with my own experience. So, next time, read carefully what I have to say before you blast me since you obviously missed the point.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2006
  14. SteveW

    SteveW DIY Senior Member

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    Another alternative is a pressure-assisted toilet, with a Flushmate valve in the tank. Some have reported needing service after a few years, but mine has served us well for about 7 years so far without a hiccup. Hasn't clogged yet -- works every time.
  15. Mike50

    Mike50 DIY Senior Member

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    699
    Location:
    Southern California
    Then maybe you should do that in PM. Thats all we need is people running around describing how to jury rig toilets that already work fine with the 1.6 flush. He's not the only person who may take your advice. Having 'plumber" in your screen name is the real issue.
    I think thats fine if he wants to do that BTW.

    Thats untrue. The casual or noobie poster would believe you speak under color of authority especially considering your screen name.
    What about the people who perhaps aren't reasonably intelligent BTW?
    Hell, if IQ tests were based on plumbing code...well then, you'll have to put me in the moron category. That's why I came here in the first place. lol


    I think I was pretty polite.
    You'll know it when I "blast" you DC_Plumber.
    I may be out of line and I hope you dont take this personally but I think you might want to give serious consideration to changing your screen name.
    It implies you are in fact a Residential Plumber.


    Big box stores do sell lots of junky toilets.
    I don't know the particulars of his situation but in all likelyhood I think He can get a better toilet from Lowes that will work well without tampering with it.

    Mike50
    Last edited: May 4, 2006
  16. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    With regard to the Wellworth, I can tell you for sure that if you alter the flapper, you will get a double flush and often a triple flush. The design utilizes the tall tank for greater pressure on flush, but the tank holds probably 5+ gallons. The bowl, if unobstructed, does indeed flush on 1.6 gallons. If you hold the handle down, or alter the flapper, the continued inflow of water will cause multiple flushes, but if the toilet is plugged, the additional water does not make it clear, it just backs up and overflows the bowl. The Wellworth is the worst offender.


    One minor positive side effect of the low flow thing is that toilets may clog, but they rarely overflow. Overflows were much more common in the days of 5 to 7 gallon flushers.
    By the way, 1.6 GPF has been a law since 1992. Although you still had a functioning toilet in your house, it's hard to figure why you hadn't heard about the new toilets! Everyone hate's them and everyone complains about them!
  17. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    toilet

    If I had to replace a toilet, a "Jacuzzi" would probably be the one of the last brands I would use. They make whirlpool tubs.
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