Just-For-Copper

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by buzzfan, Feb 27, 2007.

  1. buzzfan

    buzzfan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    This product claims to bond copper without soldering. It has been discussed on this forum before but not too recently (at least not according to my searches). There was some skepticism about using it, but not much hard data. Maybe there is more info on it now? What about using it to repair a drain pipe as opposed to a pipe under pressure?

    I have to replace a 2-foot long section of 1-1/2 inch copper pipe which runs horizontally from my kitchen sink to a vertical drain pipe (isn't the vertical pipe called 'a stack'?). This pipe is in the wall behind my kitchen cabinets (the j-trap and short pipe leading to the back of the cabinet are fine, the leak is definitely inside the wall). The pipe runs through a couple wall studs, so I'll have to cut it near the joint with the vertical pipe and then slide it out towards the sink.

    I can probably solder the joints under the sink where there is room to work safely, but I am very nervous about soldering the other end near the vertical pipe. Using a torch in such a tight space near wooden studs cannot possibly be safe. Is this a good place to use the Just-for-Copper product? Should I use one of those rubber sleeves (fernco ?) instead? Should my replacement pipe be copper? PVC? If I click my heals twice and whisper 'there is no place like home', will this problem fix itself?

    I appreciate any advice you folks may have.

    Buzzfan
  2. coz

    coz New Member

    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    MA
    use a copper to plastic bandseal clamp. its like a furnco but better. fernco`s are illegal in my state. convert to plastic and end of story
  3. buzzfan

    buzzfan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Coz,

    I have to show my ignorance here. What is the difference between a fernco and a band seal clamp? I googled a bit and to an amateur's eyes they both look like a rubber sleeves clamped at each end with circular metal clamps. Can you give me a web site so I can be sure to get the right thing?

    Thanks for you help. I'll let you know how it goes.

    Buzzfan
  4. markts30

    markts30 Commercial Plumber

    Messages:
    630
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    He is referring to the transition clamp made for transitioning from one material to another (in this case copper to PVC) which uses a stainless steel sleeve the whole coupling's length and then two clamps to secure it .
  5. TedL

    TedL New Member

    Messages:
    604
    Location:
    NY Capital District
    What's confusing to newcomers is Fernco makes both types, but the people here are referring to the "wrong" type when they say "fernco". The wrong type has two narrow bands, one at either end. The right type has one wide, full length band.
  6. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    Whats confusing is when they go to a big box store and the sales person says this is what you need and hands them a rubber coupling or worse tells them that they don't need a banded coupling and that it is a waste of $$$ because they both do the same thing.
  7. coz

    coz New Member

    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    MA
    last two posters hit the nail right on the head
  8. TedL

    TedL New Member

    Messages:
    604
    Location:
    NY Capital District
    Hey, I shop at Low*s because it's 5 min from my house and I can go there after I'm too tired to keep working, but I know that I can't even rely on the staff to know what they sell and where it is. I sure don't rely on them for advice on how to use something.
  9. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,308
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Both Lowes and Home Depot usually have a knowledgeable person on duty in the plumbing departments that can give reliable advise. Unfortunately, they also have sales clerks that are basically clueless. In time, you can get to know who the reliable guys are. Same holds true for other departments as well.
  10. well, yes and no.

    i think it is wise to doubt every last thing you hear from them, even the one most experienced person in other departments.

    So far in my experience I have found that the most senior plumbing clerk is highly knowledgeable but still not my ultimate source.

    david
  11. buzzfan

    buzzfan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Thanks for clearing up my clamp confusion. I remember seeing a coupling just like the one markts30 described at my local Ace Hardware store. I'll pick one up before this weekend's assault on the leaky pipe -- I'll return the unopened just-for-copper product then too :)

    A few last (I hope) questions. Is there any reason to NOT replace the pipe with new copper? I ask because I already bought a 24-inch length of copper pipe (when I was planning to use the just-for-copper product). I don't think I can return it since its a cut piece. I don't mind buying a piece of PVC, but I already have the copper.

    Is this a repair for which I need a permit?

    Buzzfan
  12. use the no-solder product

    Having reread your first post more than twice, I still don't know which types of pipes you have. All copper, everywhere? If it IS copper everywhere, why not stay with copper? There is no compelling reason to switch to a piece of plastic and then switch back..

    david
  13. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,292
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    copper

    The one item you have not addressed is whether that piece of copper you will connect to is good, or has it also undergone the same deterioration.
  14. buzzfan

    buzzfan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    David and HJ,

    I have all copper pipes everywhere (supply and drains) except for the j-traps under the kitchen sink (they are stainless steel). The piece of pipe I will be connecting to is sound. The reason I was considering PVC for the replacement piece was because coz mentioned 'switching to plastic' in his first post. I wondered if that were the preferred way.

    Thanks again,

    Buzzfan
  15. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    I doubt your pipe is stainless steel....I think if you look close you will see it is chrome plated brass.
  16. you got good advice everywhere

    from everyone.

    I think I have read in many places, that it looks bad when a DIY changes materials in mid-stream; it adds to the "doubt and worry" factor when others see your work. People like the next buyer or their inspector.

    david
  17. toolaholic

    toolaholic General Contractor Carpenter

    Messages:
    874
    Location:
    Marin Co. Ca.
    yaaaaaa H D AND LOWES , COMPETENT, KNOWAGABLE

    Sure #1 HOW MANY FIXTURE UNITS FOR THAT DEVICE OVER THERE?
    #2 what's the max. trap arm length for these
    #3 how high before i go horiz. on this vent?
    #4 arn't You the guy that left the drain plug out on My mothers car over
    at Jiffy lube last month? :p :eek:
  18. coz

    coz New Member

    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    MA
    As for the plumbing guru over at my home depot. I used to work with him. I own my own business now and he works at home depot. If he was so good he`d be in business too. why would a skilled person work for 12.00 an hr.
  19. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    I'll give you a few possible reasons besides being a lousy plumber.

    Not everyone that can plum right can run a business and many people who have no idea how to turn a wrench know how to run a business.

    A good plumber has to know how to do both in order to stay in business and have good personal skills with the public.

    They also can't be drunks or druggies and need to have a good work ethic.

    It ain't easy!!! .........But it can be fun with the right attitude.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2007
  20. buzzfan

    buzzfan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Its fixed !!

    I finally put together the supplies and time and managed to borrow a sawz-all last weekend and fixed my leak. Getting the old piece of pipe out was fairly easy given that I had done some work exposing the ends of it earlier. But, putting the new pipe in was more challenging. Whoever installed the pipe (probably when the house was built in 1970) decided that the holes in the wall studs through which the pipe ran did not need to line up all that well. I had to enlarge the hole in one stud right near my sink to get the 1-1/2 PVC drain pipe through. ARg, what a pain! But I digress...

    I was not able to find the band-seal clamp (first recommended by Coz) at my local hardware store or Home Depot. But when I found a plumbing supply store, they had it. I'm glad I made the effort. One can see just by looking that the band-seal clamp is a much better design than the fernco coupling. The one I purchased is now living inside my wall. My leak is now fixed and we can now use our sink and dishwasher again (the leaky pipe also drained the dishwasher) so Mrs. Buzzfan is much happier now.

    Thanks to the folks who helped point me in the right direction. I appreciate your time and expertise very much.

    Buzzfan

    PS: my next project is new shutoff valves for a bathroom sink, but I'll make a new thread about that :)

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