ISOBAR Automatic Filter Control Valve & R/O advice

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by 246epa, Mar 6, 2010.

  1. 246epa

    246epa New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Hebbville N.S.
    Any news on this make of control valve.
    Have a 26 year old Culligan Mk59, which I don't want to spend $300 on.
    Having read these forums I gather the Clack WS1 EE is a good valve & doing it myself will be about half the price of a new Culligan unit & about a 1/3 less than a unit with the above Isobar head on.

    Any advice on how to spot a good undersink R/O unit i.e. whats the difference between one & another apart from the number of filter stages.

    Many Thanks
  2. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The Isobar 2092 control valve is a modified version of the Fleck 5600.

    That makes it very proprietary to Amtrol/WaterSoft dealers or plumbers, and there are very few WaterSoft dealers. And if I'm reading their specs right, it is a 1" ported valve, unlike the 5600 which is 3/4" so I doubt many stock parts will be able to be used to repair it.

    The CS version of the Clack WS-1 is a much better choice. And Clack is industry standard stock stuff, not proprietary to one company so there are many dealers to get parts from.
  3. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,484
    Location:
    Alaska
    Gray has it right on the 5600 wana be...

    It is ok,,,,,,,,, but parts are double the fleck parts..
    If you like the lay out of the Isobar valve then the Fleck 5600SXT with 3/4 turbin meter would be a good chioce, easy programing, valve and parts are easy to work on.

    It would be good to change over from the Culligan system of a steel media tank to a fiberglass tank and upgrade the valve. The brine tank could be reusued with a different float assembly.

    RO systems, Hydrotech has one... a bit spendy but it is Very Simple and take up less room that most others. Stages are the filters that are before and after the RO membrane .. and there are different gallons per day units, some down at 10-15 and they go up from there.. water temp is a factor when sizing the RO. If your water is 40F and you would like 25 gallons in a 24 hour time frame then you will need a 75 gallon per day unit and Hydrotech has one..
  4. Skip Wolverton

    Skip Wolverton In the Trades

    Messages:
    167
    Location:
    Ocala, Fl
    And I like the Fleck 5600 meter demand system. I don't like the electronics put on softeners. I have seen too many problems with them.
  5. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,484
    Location:
    Alaska
    A bullet proof valve.............. 5600 day or meter......... much like the timex... takes a licking and keeps ticking.....
    but when changes are needed to the cleaning cycle... nothing beats the 2500,251,2750 as they all share the same front controls and motor along with other parts, only the valve changes for flow rates, and the old 2500 is still running, it has been replaced with the 2510....
  6. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    And the Clack WS-1 in any version is much better for a DIYer than any Fleck valve.
  7. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,484
    Location:
    Alaska
    How so?

    What is there that backs that statement?

    Proof.. we would like to see Proof..............
  8. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    1360+ sales in over 6 yrs and only 28 warranty problems. Anyone with the desire and a pair of Channel Lock type pliers can rebuild it by replacing all 5 replaceable parts in under 30 minutes. To program it usually takes only a couple minutes. The Clack WS-1 CS version has variable reserve and delayed and immediate regeneration while it's the latest improved version of the world famous Fleck seals, spacers and piston design but it has many fewer parts like all the seals and spacers of the Fleck plus 2 more seals and three more spacers all go in and come out as one piece. And there is no separate brine piston/valve. The turbine assembly comes out the side of the outlet so you don't have to disconnect the valve from the by pass valve or plumbing to get to it. It runs on 12 v ac and has a very long (15' or 25", I can't recall) thin power cord like a telephone or computer mouse cable. Unlike Fleck, there is no Teflon coating anywhere on a Clack WS-1. And it has very few moving parts.
  9. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,484
    Location:
    Alaska
    Let me know how that seal pack comes out when it is loaded with iron build up.............

    While the Fleck does not have the Pack,,, it is seals and spacers and one of the spacers may get broken while coming out, it is only one and can be replaced by one spacer .. the seal pack if it does not come out easy... then it is lost and will have to be replace in total just like the culligan seal pack..
  10. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    It comes out with a curled finger tip in the hole the piston came out of. And since my customers use the right amount of Iron Out and do it on the schedule I give then, there is no iron build up.
  11. Skip Wolverton

    Skip Wolverton In the Trades

    Messages:
    167
    Location:
    Ocala, Fl
    Are you there to watch your customers do this? I think not. I've found that customers do about half of want is told to them. And now prove to everyone that you have had only 28 warranty calls. If you can not prove it, don't brag about it. You don't hear me saying that in 20+ years of selling the Fleck 5600 I've sold X amount and have had only Y amount of warranty calls. Give the OP your opinion, not your resume.

    Ak. I agree that the Fleck 2500, 2510 and 2700 are great valves. But I would not sell one with electronics.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  12. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    It's like arguing Ford Vs Chevy. Pointless.
  13. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Well first I wasn't talking to the OP, I replied to AKpsdvan's question to me but why do you consider that I'm lying about the 28 warranty problems?

    You have a different set of customer than I have. I sell online to DIYers and you sell to those people that want to depend on you for installation and service. My customers usually pay attention t owhat I tell them and do it. Those that don't... they learn to do that eventually.

    BTW, sooner or later some of your customers will eventually get sick of paying you to do things for them and they will become interested in doing it themselves and get on the internet. And if I'm right you'll call them names and talk bad about them.

    Instead you should get your head out of the sand about electronic control valves like the Clack WS-1 that doesn't have the problems that you find with the big box store brands you service.
  14. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Gary, just because you disparage your customers you shouldn't assume others do it or will do it.

  15. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    Well, I havn't sold 1300 of them by any stretch of the imagination and the ones I have sold have performed to expectations. I think I've had maybe a half dozen that had a problem with the internal battery wo when the power went off they would not re-set or re-program but Clack warrantied them with no questions asked. They are a nice valve. If your customer wants and electronic, demand valve IMO Clack is the way to go. That said, I still sell Fleck 2 to 1, mostly because of the cost issue, and like it or not, cost is an issue especially when you have Homo Depot and Lowes selling GE's and whatever else for under 4 bills. I get that damn question all the time. The whole secret is to know and educate your customer. I hate getting into a pissing match over who's valve and or tank is better. Better is always subjective and should always be based on a number of factors and even then I am always glad that there are options and choices rather than relying on one particular brand.
  16. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,484
    Location:
    Alaska
    Even the best of cleaning with Iron out or any other resin cleaner is not going to stop the iron build up on the incoming parts of the valve.. there is always half of any valve that will only be dealing with untreated water.

    When there is a seal cage in the valve if one of the incoming spacers gets loaded with iron it will stick to the inside of the valve making it hard to get out.. add to that when a spacer is screwed into the next spacer.. it is even more of a challenge to get out with out any damage to the spacer.
  17. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    Like I said, I have probably 2 dozen iron ruined valves in my storage room
  18. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I have not heard of any of that yet and I have 13 ppm of iron running through some of the valves I've sold, but have not had the stack out of any of them yet. You need to look at the design of the Clack WS-1 stack to see why that doesn't happen.
  19. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    It does happen, I tore town and flushed a WS-1 last week. 9ppm iron. Plugged the valve just about solid in less than a year of service.
  20. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    My sales count is accurate right out of my database; 1362 as of a week or so ago.

    I've never had a battery problem other than one that wasn't making contact when the softener was being installed. Never had a loss of memory problem. I've had maybe a dozen customers have blank displays or no metering and with a bit of magic I got them to fix the cause. I've only had 6-7 circuit boards that had to be replaced and a third or so had been struck by lightening and I've had 3 with error codes; two were replaced under warranty and one was just last week and I haven't heard back from the customer yet. So maybe he checked the things I told him and fixed the problem.

    I don't have to compete with big box store brands because most people that call me have done research on the internet and don't want to buy one of them.
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