Is toilet flange supposed to spin?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by jp_fizzer, Jul 14, 2007.

  1. jp_fizzer

    jp_fizzer New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Hello, I took off my toilet so I could tile the floor and while I was cleaning the was out of the bolt holes the outer ring of the flange started to turn. I thought maybe I was supposed to replace this ring so I tried prying it off. It turns easily but will not come off. Is is supposed to turn or come off?

    I have attached a picture. When I push where the screwdriver is the outer ring will turn.

    thanks,
    -jeff

    Attached Files:

  2. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    On That particular type of flange it does turn.

    When you complete what you are doing you should screw the flange to the finished floor.

    The flange should be sitting on it.

    Be sure the slots are positioned right.
  3. jp_fizzer

    jp_fizzer New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Oh oh, I am going to have a problem then. As you can see the tile sits about as high as the flange so it is definitely not going to fit underneath it. What should I do? The floor is concrete so I am thinking replacing the flange will not be simple?

    thanks,
    -jeff

    Attached Files:

  4. tonykarns

    tonykarns In the Trades

    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    wisconsin
    its ok

    Once you get some mortor under the tile it will be slightly above the flange and will be just fine.
  5. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    1,404
    Location:
    Licensed Grump
    Use two tapcons.
  6. molo

    molo Member

    Messages:
    848
    Location:
    cold new york
    I have used "redhead" concrete anchors and they were great in concrete, much easier and strong as well, are they a bad alternative to tapcons for corrosion or some other reasons?

    Molo
  7. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,386
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    I think it's largely a matter of personal preference as to how to anchor a flange into concrete. Tapcons and Redhead anchors are excellent choices. My personal choice is to drill 5/16" holes and use lead ferrels with #12 stainless steel sheet metal screws. I helps that I have a roto hammer drill that drills holes in concrete almost like it was wood. Bottom line, you must secure the flange so it doesn't spin. As previously noted, be sure the flange is properly oriented before you anchor it with your choice of anchoring methods.
  8. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

    Messages:
    1,404
    Location:
    Licensed Grump

    I just like Tapcons for the fact that you skip the anchor step...with a flange there it'd be less hassle.
  9. jp_fizzer

    jp_fizzer New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Sorry, I misunderstood. When Cass said the flange should sit on the finished floor and be fastened to it I thought that meant the tile but it actually just means the concrete?

    So I should just cut the tile to fit around the outside of the flange, then anchor the flange to the concrete and then when I re-install the toilet this is where I would need an extra large wax ring because of the higher floor level?

    thanks,
    -jeff
  10. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,386
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    A flange should always be anchored through the finished floor and into the sub floor. In this case, that's the concrete. If you were on a wood floor/sub floor, then screws would be all that would be needed, but since you're over concrete, you will need to use some form of anchor into the concrete. It's not just to keep the flange from turning, it is also to make certain the flange is solidly anchored to the floor. Not all flanges turn like yours, but all need to be well anchored.
  11. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    Ideally, the flange would sit on top of the finished floor (and be fastened through it) to keep the flange high enough to help make a good seal against the bottom of the fixture. But if the flange ends up being only flush with the top of the finished floor, I believe you can later use a thicker wax ring to assure a good seal when you do set the fixture.
  12. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    You will only be slightly low, so a #10 thick wax will probably do it. If not, the "waxless" by Fluidmaster or RectorSeal are made just for this situation.
  13. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,046
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    flange

    It appears that the pipe is secured in the concrete and if so you do not have to worry about anchoring the flange because it cannot move anyway. DO NOT remove the flange or you may never get it back on.
  14. jp_fizzer

    jp_fizzer New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Whew, I'm glad I didn't try too hard to get that flange off :)

    However, you might be able to see from the pictures that the areas where the bolts go is slightly bent up from my struggles removing the toilet, is this going to be a problem?

    I was thinking of caulking between the flange and the finished tile, would this be a good, bad or indifferent idea?

    Jimbo, you mentioned that the #10 wax would "probably" do it. How will I know? Would I be better off to just go with the "waxless" gasket or are there advantages to using the wax?

    thanks,
    -jeff
  15. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    When you set the toilet in place, you should feel it "land" on the wax, when the base of the toilet is still 3/8 to 1/2 inch above the tile. You should have to lean down on the toilet to settle it into the wax. If you don't feel like you have had a good "squish" on the wax, then the wax was not high enough.
  16. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    How "loose" is the flange, if at all? Keep in mind that if the toilet is only bolted to a loose flange, it can/could/would/might wiggle a bit during use and eventually break its seal to the *pipe*. If the flange is loose, you might either first fasten it to the floor or else set studs in the floor and coming through the flange to hold the toilet down.
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