Is this new toilet defective? (pics)

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by jpinard, Mar 30, 2008.

  1. jpinard

    jpinard New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Quick background - I have Cystic Fibrosis and my sister just found out she has cancer. We don't have children but we'll be watching hers for a while (they're 2, 4, and 7 years old).

    So we had to get a new toilet today which we really can't afford. But plunging our old one every 2 days - and with our nieces/nephews going to be over here for a while I needed to get something in that would be trouble free. Getting geared up for a physical project like this is pretty difficult for me, and tomorrow when my pain meds wear off I'll be in bad shape so I was hoping I could finish this tonight. At any rate, like a super stupid person - I ripped the old toilet out after seeing no cracks in the new toilet (but before thoroughly inspecting the new one), now that I'm about to put it in I noticed some things that concern me:

    It's a Kohler Cimarron and there's a small hole in the bowl in front. I can't tell if it's supposed to be there (to help direct flow?) or if it's a manufacturing defect?

    [​IMG]

    The second issue seems to be sloppy workmanship. I can chip this stuff out:
    [​IMG]

    but the line of porcelain caulk or whatever in back - doesn't actually cover the whole seam:

    [​IMG]
    Closeup:
    [​IMG]

    Is it OK if it doesn't cover the seam where those two parts come together?
  2. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Wow, thats some really sloppy workmanship :eek:

    I have never noticed any holes like in your pic before at the front of the bowl. I don't recall ever seeing it. But if you look at the surrounding porcelain, it looks like a small chamber where water could pass into the bowl
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2008
  3. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I believe that the hole in the front of the bowl is supposed to be there.

    The rough stuff that you see is in the internal water passage of the bowl While its not perfect only water goes through there I would not be overly concerned about it. If it was in the waste trapway I would be very concerned.

    In the last picture I'm not sure but I believe it is okay.

    Kohler quality does appear to be slipping.
  4. jpinard

    jpinard New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Yes, the irony is, we went with the Kohler (over a Jacuzzi toilet that was $100 cheaper) because the Kohler was supposed to be better?
    We got it at Lowe's.
  5. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    that answers everything
  6. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    I would take a trip back to Low*s and open a box to look at another bowl. I does not look like it should be there but I could be wrong.

    I wouldn't waste my $$$ on defects. You can return it at any time...that is Low*s policy...for a full refund. Be sure you have the recept to prove it.
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2008
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,607
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Toilet

    The front hole could be to enhance the scouring effect of the water. As far as the other pictures, I have installed thousands of toilets and never even bothered looking into the rear water passage. If you understood how toilets are assembled, and then fired/baked, you would realize why what you think are defects occur. But I have had customers who bought toilets, not just Kohler toilets, from HD and Lowes, which did have major defects, even though the manufacturers say that they are caught and never leave the factory.
  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,993
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    That small hole in the Kohler Cimarron bowl should not be there.
    At least it wasn't in the front of the bowl, like one we installed that leaked onto the floor.
    That one was returned for a new bowl. Time lost, 2.5 hours.
    That bowl should never have been boxed and sold.
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2008
  9. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

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    Location:
    Connecticut
    The expert has spoken!

    [​IMG]

    Pardon me for not recalling whether the hole was supposed to be there...
    It has been a couple of months at least since I had to install a Cimmeron...
    Fortunately I have been installing a lot of Toto toilets where quality control reigns supreme!
    Luckily a lot of my customer run to the computer and check what I tell them...
    Usually they like what pops up regarding Toto!
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=&as_epq=toto+drake&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=10&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=off
    Terry's review does come up in a good spot when you google Toto Drake!
    I feel a little better knowing it fooled HJ too!

    IMHO even a defective Kohler Cimmeron is a lot better than a Jacuzzi Toilet.
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2008
  10. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,347
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Take it back, get a refund, then find your nearest Toto dealer.
  11. jpinard

    jpinard New Member

    Messages:
    12
    I did call Kohler and they confirmed it's not supposed to be there, and apparently whoever worked on the oilet, and whatever QA was supposed to check - well they all failed to do their job. I offered to give them the serial number so they could notify whoever is reponsible at the plant, and they said, "that's not necessary".

    Did Kohler quality start dropping when they moved/built their plant in Mexico?
  12. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    [​IMG]
    American Standard Cadet 3 bowl with a case of torticollia.

    Not to the depths that Am. Std. plunged but it has gone down!

    Thanks for that Am.Std. Cadet 3 picture edit Terry... I was looking around for it! ;-)
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2008
  13. Mad Plumber

    Mad Plumber Mad Skills

    Messages:
    222
    I like how the bowl leans.
    Does it feel like running around in circles like a dog does in a field when its sunny aout?
  14. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    If you sit down for the "Big One" with the sunday paper you might just need an appointment with the chiroprator when your done. LOL
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