is this legal?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by Pabs, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. Pabs

    Pabs New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Moncton, NB (Canada)
    quick question

    can you hook into the line from the toilet before it reaches the main stack?

    here's a quick diagram showing the way it was hooked up. ideally I would hook up like this again.

    [​IMG]

    the branch from the sink/washer is a y connector on TOP of the 3 inch line, not on the side.

    Pabs
  2. dcelite

    dcelite Plumber

    Messages:
    132
    Location:
    Los Gatos, CA
    That 3" pipe going to the toilet flange is called the trap arm. You can not drain another fixture into a trap arm. You can only have one trap per trap arm. You would have to drain the sink into the stack.

    DC
  3. dcelite

    dcelite Plumber

    Messages:
    132
    Location:
    Los Gatos, CA
    If that toilet flange is 15' away from the stack then maybe that 2" is supposed to be the vent for the toilet. You would need to run a seperate line from the sink/washer and tie into the stack. The sink and washer, of course, need to be vented through the roof or tied into another vent.

    DC
  4. Pabs

    Pabs New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Moncton, NB (Canada)

    makes sense about running separate lines to the stack. a little more work but not that much really.

    the 2 (actually only 1 1/2) line was never intended as a vent. that reno was done by the previous owner. he's botched pretty much everything he's ever touched in that house..incredible.

    as for that long run to the stack... you feel that's too long without a vent? that means that right now it gets its venting from the main stack that is a good 15 feet away (if not more)

    If I use that 1 1/2 line as a vent, how far from the flange should I hook it up? and does anything else change downstream if I add that vent?

    P
  5. dcelite

    dcelite Plumber

    Messages:
    132
    Location:
    Los Gatos, CA
    With a 3" trap arm the closet flange can be only 6' away from the vent. Also, the minimum vent size for a toilet is 2".

    DC
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,293
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    drain

    That drain is acting as the toilet's vent, but as such it should be 2", but could be 1 1/2" depending on your code's requirements. If you repipe the sink drain to a new connection to the main stack, you will still have to provide the proper vent for the toilet.
  7. Pabs

    Pabs New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Moncton, NB (Canada)
    thanks for all the help this far guys...this site is great!

    ok...so how's this for my final plan... I hope ;)
    [​IMG]

    for the new vent for the toilet... can I tie that in to my 2 inch vent I'm using for the sink and washer?

    otherwise I can go separate out the house... but rather only poke one hole in the house

    also.. at the main stack...when I bring my new drain for the sink and washer (the 2 inch line), can I at that point tie it in to the pipe coming from the toilet? we are talking at least 15 feet at this point.. is there still a risk of siphoning ?? reason I ask is because it may be hard to connect to the main stack.. old cast...there's a small PVC section where the toilet line comes in but I rather not touch the main stack if I don't have too

    also...the vent for the toilet... I have running up under the bathroom and out the wall...but cold I bring that vent back to the main stack? or is too long a run? just curious

    thanks
  8. Rmelz

    Rmelz New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Ohio
    Is that sink a bathroom sink? If it is then you can wet vent the water closet with the sink. But no the drawing you made is not legal. The vent you have for the water closet is called a flat vent. Any vent that is horizontal has to be 6" minimum above the flood level rim of the highest fixture on that branch. If the vent is not 6" above the flr, the vent runs a chance of filling up with waste if the sewer ever backs up.
  9. dcelite

    dcelite Plumber

    Messages:
    132
    Location:
    Los Gatos, CA
    You may tie your 2" drain from the washer/sink into the toilet drain anywhere between the vent and the stack. Also, tie the toilet vent in above the highest fixture ( washer box).
  10. dcelite

    dcelite Plumber

    Messages:
    132
    Location:
    Los Gatos, CA
    Can you bring the toilet vent up vertically in the wall behind the toilet? Assuming the toilet is facing the sink?
  11. Pabs

    Pabs New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Moncton, NB (Canada)
    hey dcelite

    I could bring the vent up the inside wall then out the top and make a bulk head to contain the vent until get back to the wall on the other side i guess

    so that would mean I could tie in my 2" drain for the washer/sink anywhere at that point (after ny vertical vent) if I understand you correctly?

    I'll draw up another plan...hopefully this one will be the last!
    oh..and if I run the pipe behind, is there any restrictions regarding distance before it gets outside? I assume the only restriction is that the piep always be with an upward slope correct?
  12. Pabs

    Pabs New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Moncton, NB (Canada)
    yes it is a sink . what do you mean when you say that I could wet vent the water closet with the sink?
  13. dcelite

    dcelite Plumber

    Messages:
    132
    Location:
    Los Gatos, CA
    By George, I think you've got it! You needn't be concerned with the distance of the vent in this layout.
    Don't worry about the wet venting for the sink. It won't be applicable if you run the toilet vent in a different wall.
  14. Pabs

    Pabs New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Moncton, NB (Canada)
    ok, thanks to all your tip... I think this is my final layout! ...you be the judges!

    check this out
    [​IMG]

    the blue lines represent the parts that are vented.
    yellow is where the water shall flow...
    all pipes are 2" withe the exception of the vent for the washer and the p trap and trap arm of the sink.. they both tie into the 2" line that connects to the WC drain (after the new vent!)

    the vent for the WC will run behind the wall and then come on in the corner. that's where I'll have to run a bulk head to get the other side of the bathroom.. .

    both trap arms (sink and the washer) should run at 1/4 per foot correct?

    also...does the vent need that slope (upward) as well, as minimuml? or as long as it's not going down it's fine?
  15. FloridaOrange

    FloridaOrange Plumbing Designer

    Messages:
    1,317
    Location:
    SW Florida
    That looks good. Vents need to be sloped but no minimum, the idea is to let condensation or rain that comes in at the roofcap drain back into the sanitary system.
  16. Pabs

    Pabs New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Moncton, NB (Canada)
    gotcha...so even if I only dropped 1/4 of an inch of 6 feet or so that would be ok?

    I'm trying to minimize the size of the bulk head...small bathroom so adding a huge bulk head will look funny.
    the vent for the WC needs to be 2" correct?
  17. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,799
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I use 2" on the toilet vent.
    This drawing looks much better.
    Much better.

    In Washington State, we would use a combo on it's back for the toilet vent. That would look like a wye and 45 together.
    I don't know what the inspectors like in Canada.
    They may be okay with the 3x2 Santee.
    They used to be okay with them here too.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  18. Pabs

    Pabs New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Moncton, NB (Canada)

    It's because of the all the colors eh? I put the EH in there just to confirm I live in Canada :)


    oh... I think I know what you mean. actually I just drew it like that, I will use a wye and a 45 to go up through the ceiling...
    next time I'll proof my drawings a little better....that's what happens when you do this stuff while at work... hehe

    thanks for all the guidance guys... I will surely have a question or two before I'm completely done... but you've helped a great deal to get to this point...

    off to do some electrical now
    too late to be drilling holes right now... don't think the family would appreciate it much :)
  19. Pabs

    Pabs New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Moncton, NB (Canada)
    hey Terry

    finally got to the dry fit of all my pipes...

    got his hooked up for the WC drain and vent
    [​IMG]

    it was a bit of a challenge getting the vent in but I think I got it

    one regarding the vent...am I OK with the the of connector showing in my pic?
    The Y is going in the opposite direction as the flow.... is this how you should hook it up?

    Pabs
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