Is there a problem with this bath/shower installation?

Redo or not?

  • Yes

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PaddyFahey

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EDIT - gap is more like 3/8", not 1/2" - 3/4"

Hello,

We just had a Sterling Accord shower/tub combo installed by a plumber. The plumber mentioned that there were some framing irregularities that prevented him from getting everything completely straight (he did use shims behind one of the walls, and had to cut into the stud on one of the others).

However, after he left I noticed a few things. First off, the tub itself is not level. There's about a 1/2"-3/4" drop from the front to the back. I looked under the tub, and the tub legs are on the floor - he didn't add shims to level it. In addition, there are gaps between the components - between the walls and the tub, and between two of the walls. Is this expected for this type and quality of tub? Is it going to be a problem? I can see how water probably won't be able to get between the gap and over the flange of the tub behind, but what about steam?

I've uploaded some photos, and I'll try describe them.

First photo - Shows the gap between the right panel and the tub. It increases from a tight fit at the front, to about 3/8" at the back, consistent with the tub not being level. The gap carries on all along the back panel

Second photo - Shows the gap between the back panel and the tub, close up. It is about 3/8"" along the length

Third photo - Shows the gap between the left panel and the tub. Again, it increases from a tight fit at the front to a gap at the back. You can see that the left panel and the back don't line up either - the gap between the side and the tub closes again where the back panel starts, but then opens again (fourth photo)

Fifth photo - the vertical gap between the right panel and the back panel - not too bad, uniform all along

Sixth photo - the vertical gap between the left panel and the back panel - not so easy to see, but there is a 3/8" gap at the bottom, closing to a tight fit at the top.

Thanks,

Paddy
 

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Acrylic combos require some real ideal conditions for everything to work out, like flat floors and straight walls.

Great for contractors to install during new construction, a nightmare when used for renovations where nothing is straight or plumb.

If this is already paid for and there is no legal recourse, accept how these things never look great after 10 years anyways.

A proper tile job does cost more in material and labor, but when done according to manufacturers, should last beyond 75 years. It's amazing when you demolish some 50+ year tile job on nothing but drywall, and that drywall never got wet!
 

Terry

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The last one I installed took some trimming of the panels where the attachments are made. I used a knife and a file to clean those parts up, and then it all slid together just fine.

delta-lahara-02.jpg
 
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PaddyFahey

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Standardairconditioner - Thanks, but it's a bit late for me to consider tile. We're on a budget, and it is already paid for and so there is no legal recourse. I was going to rely on the plumber's willingness rather than legal action, anyway. I understand that these things might be difficult to line up, but the tub itself wasn't level, and the gaps are nearly all accounted for by that.

Terry - do you think I should ask the plumber to re-do it, or just live with it? It doesn't look good, but apart from that I'm concerned about moisture intrusion. Should he have made sure that the tub was level, before even attempting to fit the walls? The gaps appear to be solely caused by the non-level tub.
 
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Cacher_Chick

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For the installation to go well, the floor needs to be level, the walls need to be plumb, and the corners must be square. Fixing the framing to meet this standard could easily double the initial quote for a standard replacement. This is one of the great challenges of the business, in that often we have no way of knowing what problems we will run into until the room is gutted and the measurements are taken.
 
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do you think I should ask the plumber to re-do it, or just live with it?
I don't think the plumber can re-do it, they would have made it fit right the first time. You can certainly try to ask them and see how generous they are willing to do more work for free.

You need someone with Terry's experience that is able to work giant pieces like these to make things fit. I'm really good at tiling, but I would suck big time with these acrylic walls.

I have a friend that can use the most twisted and contorted pieces of studs and joists to build a straight deck. After it was laid out, blocked, and assembled, you couldn't tell. Experience is king.

These arylic walls are designed and lipped in a way where gravity helps water go away. I'm 75% sure you'll have no problems for the first 5 years of service. Take QUICK showers with low-flo heads. Don't install any shower handles for kids to play with.
 

hj

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If the tub had been leveled the horizontal seams would be tight, bu the vertical ones depend on the walls being straight, but usully have an overlap to compensate for uneveness.
 

PaddyFahey

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If the tub had been leveled the horizontal seams would be tight, bu the vertical ones depend on the walls being straight, but usully have an overlap to compensate for uneveness.
Thanks. So do you think he should have made the tub level first?
 

Jadnashua

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The instructions require that the tub sit level. It's the first thing in the installation instructions and they tell you what to do if the floor is not level. The guy did NOT install it per instructions, so you have every right to withhold payment or get him to fix it at no additional costs. There is an expected performance that when you pay someone to install something, they do it correctly, and this was not done per the installation instructions.

http://www.sterlingplumbing.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/1156425_2.pdf
 
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Yup, this homeowner certainly got screwed.

Too bad they didn't use a Home Depot contractor, the homeowner could have refused to sign the work, and they would have sent another contractor to correct the mistake without additional cost.
 

hj

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quote; So do you think he should have made the tub level first?

No question about it. Do you work for Home Depot? You seem to think they are the best contractors in the world, even though they have to work cheap to get the HD business.
 

PaddyFahey

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OK, thanks for all you help. The plumber is coming to look at it tomorrow, though I'm not hopeful that he'll do anything.

This was a plumber recommended to us by our regular plumber. Our regular plumber doesn't do tub replacements. The plumber himself recommended that we use a Sterling Accord, because he'd installed them before. I asked him about setting it in mortar, and he said that he usually didn't do that with the Accord (he usually just used the felt pad) but that he'd do so for an additional fee (but that he'd use drywall compound). I agreed to it, and he used the compound but didn't shim the tub to make it level. I asked him about that on the phone last night, and he said he preferred to install them with all the feet on the actual floor. So his judgment call was to install it uneven but with all feet on the floor, rather than evened with shims. I would guess that this is his normal practice, since he usually uses just the felt pad and I doubt he'd even it up without the mortar.

Ironically, we decided to go directly with a contractor rather than HD/Lowes, because we'd heard that they didn't pay contractors well and as a result often got the more desperate people to work for them.
 

Jadnashua

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ALL tubs must be installed level to work properly. IT really doesn't matter whose you choose, that's one of the first things they say. It is NOT optional. How you achieve that obviously (well, maybe not to him!) will vary. Personally, unless you're using a cast iron tub which is stiff enough to not flex, mortar changes the way most of them feel...allowing you to both level it and to support it across the vast majority of the bottom rather than just by the feet. The things are no way as stiff as a CI tub, and using mortar really helps. A typical tub, installed with mortar underneath tends to also last longer. Drywall mud, applied as thick as typically needed, tends to crack as it dries...mortar cures, and if mixed properly does not shrink or crack. Drywall mud will stick to both the floor and the tub, the mortar often is installed over plastic to prevent the wood from sucking all of the moisture out if it, weakening it before it gets a chance to cure. To do this, you place a bunch of piles of the stuff around the floor underneath, then smoosh the tub down so that it is level. Done right, you have what amounts to numerous 'feet' (and much wider ones), verses the more typical 4 or maybe 6.
 
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I asked him about setting it in mortar, and he said that he usually didn't do that with the Accord (he usually just used the felt pad) but that he'd do so for an additional fee (but that he'd use drywall compound). I agreed to it, and he used the compound but didn't shim the tub to make it level.
Seriously? Drywall compound for a mortar bed? So does this mean you are calling him back to re-do it again properly a 3rd time?

I would guess that this is his normal practice.
Because he knew better than the manufacturer? Might want to take a look at the pdf docs that was mentioned in post #9 ?

5 - Without a pad, we recommend the basin area be set in 1" (25 mm) to 2" (51 mm) of mortar cement.

Ironically, we decided to go directly with a contractor rather than HD/Lowes
Your incident happened to another member here, exactly the same time as you. Read this, and see how this homeowner is not in the same boat as you:
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/bath-shower-faucet-question.64950/
 
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PaddyFahey

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No, he's coming back for the first time since he originally installed it. He hasn't agreed to fix it, just to assess hit. Sounds like I have two things to discuss - leveling it, and the use of drywall mud.

Thanks,

Paddy
 

PaddyFahey

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The plumber came by, and is fixing the situation. He said that something must have shifted after install, and he was very apologetic. He took it all apart, leveled the tub, and made sure that the pieces went back together well. He is going to spray high-density foam under the tub and around it to stabilize it. It will mean that will be a small layer of foam (1/2" max, going to 0) between the one side of the tub and the mortar bed, where the tub was lifted on that side. It won't be supporting the tub, just adding some support to the tub floor to prevent it from flexing.

Thanks for all your help - what I learned here helped with the situation.

Paddy
 
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