Is there a Made in USA toilet as good as a Toto?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Nickelboy, Jul 23, 2012.

  1. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,782
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I pay as much for a TOTO Drake at the wholesale level as I do for a Cadet 3.
    Since I work for a living selling and installing plumbing products, it's nice if that product is trouble free. My time is worth something. Working with the TOTO line is a no brainer if I want to do the job once. My return rates on TOTO have been less then 1%
    It's been much higher for American Standard product that I'm selling and installing.
    And nobody pays you for lost time.

    I see he likes flags a lot too. My family has been in the country long before it was a country.
    I can date it back to 1620. That's 392 years. But I don't need to post flags to let people know I'm a nice person. I have friends from all over. My family is very international too, and so are my customers. I live in the Seattle area, a very nice place to be. I'm kind of partial to British Columbia too. Nice people everywhere it seems.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,817
    Location:
    New England
    Even if corporate profits end up overseas, the vast majority of the money created by running a factory in any country is the labor, medical, services, and materials it purchases or provides to the community. All of that money stays local, and when you consider the typical multiplication factor of all those employed people spending their salaries, it is MUCH more than the relatively insignificant profits that may leave. And, if you happen to own any stock in that company, some of that profit also stays here. Not counting the taxes they pay to local economy and the feds. People that bash foreign owners are welcomed to startup their own, competing endeavor.
  3. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,770
    Location:
    New York, NY
    You know, there needs to be a bit of a dose of reality in this thread.

    I read that piece that Ballvalve posted about American Standard "Made in USA" Chinaware. Holy crap! All I can say is that it makes me dislike the company even more. First, obviously the only reason that they moved some of this manufacturing back was to be able to continue to have their chinaware used in public works projects funded with Stimulus Package money. What are they making here? Well, certain versions of the Cadet for government buildings, and a flushometer toilet bowl suitable for public restrooms, and a few sinks the same. Everything else? Made elsewhere. Tank hardware? Sure looks like a Made in Mexico Fluidmaster on that Cadet. So for them to wave the flag like that just makes me gag.

    It's hard to hear about a "global economy" when one sees factories close and jobs move. Nevertheless, it doesn't help us, in my view to become jingoistic. For example, to worry about "profits going elsewhere" misses one point that is probably relevant to the discussion. Those profits that "go elsewhere" are operating profits. Those profits, after being taxed here, go back to pay back the capital investment that the owner made here in the first place. So, when the Columbians bought Mansfield, they paid Americans tens of millions of dollars that otherwise would be sitting in Columbia. In other words, they injected capital into this country. The old Mansfield owners could then spend and invest that money. Meanwhile, the profits that the Columbians get are being used to pay off whatever money they had to borrow to buy Mansfield. When Toto came to the US, they put tens of millions of dollars into building an infrastructure here, building things, renting space, hiring people, before they ever begun to get money back from their operations. What operating profit they make here gets taxed by our government before some of it goes to Japan to pay off the investment that they made here in the first place and continue to make. Bottom line: yeah, "profits" go out when you buy a Toto, but a lot of money came IN to the US from them before they could even start operating.

    To me, that something is made here or made by a local company is icing on the cake; I'll pay a little more for it, but I'm not going to buy something that's grossly-overpriced or not a good product just because some marketing-type slaps a flag-sticker on it. So I am delighted to buy a Korky flapper, for example, because it's a good product, priced right, and made here. Now that's a winner!
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  4. Cookie

    Cookie .

    Messages:
    5,660
    Location:
    .
    An outhouse is looking better and better, lol.

    There is something I think most people do not understand. There is at least one common denominator with all countries. All. My husband traveled for work, really extensively, in & out of our country. I was luckily enough to be able to travel with him alot of the time to places most people won't get a chance to ever see. We found one thing that all countries had in common. They preferred that their own countrymen or tourists, buy their own countries products over another's. I swear it was this way, no matter what country or how far-reaching it was from the US. If they produced a product, no matter what the product was, they wanted to sell that one, over something, the exact thing, produced elsewhere.

    All countries, no matter the country, want to help their own, we are no different, they are no different, this is something that people have in common. Every country flies their flag, takes pride in their country, their people, and, they should; and, the US is the same. That is all. All people, no matter where, no matter how far, have this in common, it is not wrong, it is simply, human nature... Your country is home, it is where you hang your hat, raise your kids, and all people of all nations, basically, want the same, a good life, a better one for their families and their kids.

    All countries, all people are basically the same in what they want, and if you take a closer look at things, you will see that.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  5. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Thanks for keeping the post up. I don't hate but a few persons on earth, -not because of color or race- and if I said why, you'd agree. we were taught to judge each person individually, black, yellow, Japanese, Mexican. Perhaps I just have the misfortune of living in a area with poor plumbers - I am sure you could make a long list of them in your area too. My plumbing started at about age 7, steamfitting at our tailor and cleaning plant. could turn a mean thread by hand by age 10. Hope the asbestos doesn't get me.

    Had a goofy machinist old uncle imported from Slovakia - taught me to make hacksaws, run a mill and metal shaper....and could fix ANYTHING. Never smiled once in his life, mean as a mule with a screw in his butt, was only married for 2 weeks, but hid marbles and pennies in a pile of dirt for me- told me it was from an old bank. Took me many years to figure out his game.

    I am sure you and most of the gang here are good at your craft, but you guys gravitate to the big cities, the broken down ones apparently come out in the mountains to hide. I gave up and keep a van filled with several thousands of dollars of parts. Have a grunt that with a bit of coaching can do anything for 1/4 of the cost of the one maybe good guy around. As I said in earlier posts, if I had a cushy govt. job at 50 bucks an hour, and one house, I'd be happy to hire a plumber. But I've got pipe and pumps like bed bugs in a 20$ motel.

    Frankly, I think America a bit nuts with flags. After 911, All the phone co trucks flew about 8 on them and it started to get me a bit ill. My father was a drill seargeant for 25 years after the big war, and he would'nt put a flag up either. He knew that patriotism, or defense of ones country comes in ACTIONS, not displays. You don't wear it on your sleeve. And I still have a living brother because he was smart enough to make him do 2 years in electronics college before he enlisted. Thought Vietnam was a deranged mistake.

    So my thing is that one of our best actions we can take to keep this country working is to try as best we can to buy something made here, and let the morons in washington know we care.... It helps us today, and it saves us when the next war starts. So American standard has its profit motives, but no matter, its a great start. After all of Terrys talk, I even bought a Toto. Nice flush, but maybe the AS 3 will improve now that its home.

    I thought that big flag was rather nice, and that was up just for a armed forces day - probably the only city left that celebrates it. Hawthorne, Nevada. Look it up- i would designate it as one of the most unique towns in America. Absolute middle of desert nowhere, with a 50x25 mile long desert lake, and enough bunkers filled with bombs to keep us all safe after the next and bigger 911.

    I do have a problem with my 6 year old - watches old Polish TV versions of "Combat" - the Polish and Russians fighting the Germans. Now all he does is shoot Germans in the yard. Finally got him to use the word 'Nazi' instead.

    How about we put the U.S. Toto in the Master, the Kohler in the guest bath, and the Mansfield in the basement?
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  6. Cookie

    Cookie .

    Messages:
    5,660
    Location:
    .
    Personally, I like that picture of your son and the big flag. I love seeing them flying. I like how they look. I keep a little one outside my door with my flowers. I can't or could never get tired of looking at our flag. I think, all nations are like that, everyone takes pride and should in their homeland. I love the USA. I think, we do alot to help other nations and people and that makes me proud.
  7. BMartin9000

    BMartin9000 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    I personally love Toto and have never had an issue with them. My customers have never complained, so why not just use them?
  8. JerryR

    JerryR Member

    Messages:
    234
    Location:
    Florida
    Just last week i had a long conversation with a friend in Michigan. He had a plastics manufacturing business that supplied parts mainly for US auto makers. A few years ago his business dropped off to nothing as US auto companies went overseas for plastic stuff. He lost over a million dollars when he sold his business.

    Today he drives a Honda Accord because it's made in US and has 85% US parts. He was going to buy a Chevy but it was only 67% US parts. The Accord now has 250,000 miles on it.

    I take an elderly friend to lunch twice a week. Every time he gets into my Lexus he tells me that they bombed Pearl Harbor. He drives a Volvo. Guess where the ball bearings were manufactured for the German Aircraft during WW2?

    My Toto drake was manufactured 1/2 in US and 1/2 in Vietnam. I spent 12 long months in vietnam in 1968.

    I retired from a high tech US fortune 500 company. By the time I left NONE of the manufacturing was done in the US.

    We are a global economy.
  9. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Answer: They were made in Schweinfurt, Germany where thousands of Americans lost their legs or lives trying to bomb the plants. I have been there. Incredibly, my Army brother lived there during the Vietnam war because of his tech degree, aiming Hawk missiles at the soon to visit Russians. What is breath-taking is how these bright and meticulous people could have built human death factories - on the surface, its the most civilized country on earth. Stop in at Auswitzch in the winter if you want to come home and kiss the ground. My wife acted in the movie Schindlers list, and nearly had a breakdown.

    Anyway.... I suppose BEFORE the war, the Germans imported bearings from wherever they could get them. They also Mfg'd. some in Czechoslovakia in underground plants.

    I met a OLD woman near a village in Kiev, Ukraine. She was a slave worker for the Nazi's - near the wars end, she hid a downed American pilot in the forest and fed him daily. When the war ended he gave her his watch and rings and all his money, and a jacket, then she walked the 1000 miles or so home. I was the first American she saw since him and I never had so many kisses in my life. She had a fine toilet just outside the door that required no flush valve or water.

    I think our main problem in America is the folks that survived the depression are long dead, and no American ever walked a few thousand miles in the winter, eating rotten potatoes and frozen turnips, with all the towns still smouldering brick piles.

    Spa's, 60" tv's, Bidets, are softening us up.

    As to plastic MFG'g - I would NOT worry. Its the third largest industry in the US and employs 900 thousand people. Now with our 'free' natural gas, you'll see even more. I want to see a plastic TOILET - just imagine the advantages..... And the perfectly formed and smooth trapways you could create.

    http://www.plasticsindustry.org/aboutplastics/?navItemNumber=1008
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,782
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Delta made a one-piece plastic toilet in the 70's. The shop I worked for had a red one on display. It was feather light. We never installed it, and I don't think we sold any either. It felt kind of flimsy.
    I've never felt good about plastic chairs either. There are a few more expensive and more solid ones out there. One thing I like when sitting, is something that doesn't move around underneath me. Unless it was made to be a rocker.

    That has surprised me too. Frankly I'm stunned by it. It was never logical. If you leave politics out of it, we would be the best of friends.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  11. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    I plumb a little bit, often with about 6+ trades involved. Takes a lot of imagination, and ingenuity, Let me tell you.

    With larger pipe in dirtier places than the average plumber. Septics, filtered streambed hydro pickups [and notice the average winter flow after the completion] And finally, a few of my "tools" - you should see what concoction of pipes is under all that beautiful USA made iron! And just for "filler time" Built the house too. No subs.




    septic3.JPG low size streambed.jpg streambedpickupreduced.jpg culvertto use.jpg tractorsreduced.jpg
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2012
  12. GoKohlerGo

    GoKohlerGo Brand New Plumber

    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Michigan
    Yes it is, manufactured, tested, and the porcelain is made right there in Kohler, Wisconsin, USA.

    And you probably saw my other post that said about the same thing, I just wanted to reply with quote.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  13. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Bain Capital is not the boogey-man that this thread and the Osama Bin Obama campaign would have you believe. If Eljer and Crane were making any money, they would not have had to sell out to American Standard at fire sale prices. Fact is Eljer was selling mostly cheap toilets go HD, and we all know that manufacturers do not make any money selling to HD.

    Yes, factories were closed and jobs moved offshore. Welcome to the world. The biggest culprit is all us consumers who think we should be able to buy an $80 toilet and get top quality and performance. My hat is off to a real "buy American " guy who really walks the walk.

    My hope is that there will come a balancing of the world labor market, resulting in some resurgence of manufacturing here at home. China and India are experiencing labor issues. We will need to keep unions and the uncle sam out of the mix. A good company in the right market situation can be fair and generous to its workers, and reward a dedicated and efficient work force.

    Dont forget to VOTE.
  14. Joe Six Pack

    Joe Six Pack New Member

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Anchorage AK
    Romney's Auto Bailout Bonanza
    How to make money from the auto bail out and send jobs to China.

    Of the twenty-nine Delphi plants operating in the United States when the hedge funders began buying up control, only four remain, with not a single union production worker. Romney’s “job creators” did create jobs—in China,

    Romney's Bain Investment Record: Three Times the Bankruptcies of Fed Investments

    The Wall Street Journal analyzed Bain Capital investments while Romney headed the firm. The Journal found that 22% of the companies went bankrupt within eight years.

    So that's 8% failure for government investments in alternative energy firms vs. a 22% bankruptcy record under Mitt Romney's leadership at Bain. So Bain's record is almost three times worse then the feds. So when is a 22% failure rate something to brag about?

    My Pain Is Mitt Romney's Gain: My Story as a Sensata Worker
    On Monday, November 5th Bain Capital is outsourcing my job to China. On Tuesday, November 6th I'm casting my vote against Mitt Romney.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  15. lynnshev

    lynnshev New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    California
    made in USA toilet

    I had googled if a Kohler Santa Rosa one piece toilet was made in the USA and ended up on Terry's site....long story short at least the Kohler Santa Rosa one piece that I just put in is stamped in the tank Made in USA. Leave it to the wife to look inside!! I'd a got there eventually but hey I found this site! Also, went to Kohler and they are pretty mum about where the toilets are made... nowadays if a company isn't sayin' up front Made in USA I have serious doubts because hey that's a good selling point today.. Anyway that's all I got to say about that.
  16. lynnshev

    lynnshev New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    California
    I know it's a whole year plus but for pete's sake just look at Kohler, find out if the particular model you like is made here, probably is, and then ask yourself if you'd rather buy American and support American jobs or not....just sayin' Also, according to Kohler they are going to be making some small engines overseas with a partner there, can't remember if it's Japan or China. But they have a big plant in Kohler, Wisconsin....like the man says....use the internet, investigate, check out all the reviews...our Santa Rosa from Kohler is quieter and flushes great w/only 1.28 gal water plus is has a partial flush for the liquid only times...Good Product by the buy it was $278 so not cheap but we're happy with it.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
  17. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,770
    Location:
    New York, NY
  18. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    USA
    I checked my Toto Carlyle II and could not find a country of manufacture stamp in the tank. Where would I find it?
  19. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,782
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    It would have been on the box. All of the Carlyle II's that I've ever seen were stamped "MADE IN USA"
  20. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,770
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Uh. Hmmmm.... How to put this.... Ah! "No it doesn't."

    If by partial flush you mean the flush that you get when you press the lever and let go, that's the full 1.28gpf flush.

    If you think the "full flush" is what happens when you hold the lever down and drain the tank, uh, no, that's called "misusing the flush lever to dump 3 gallons down the drain".

    Modern toilets don't drain the tank to do their flush. They fill the tank to add pressure at the head, and use that pressure to add power to the flush, but they don't empty the tank. In your toilet, the flapper probably closes after about a gallon has passed through, and the other .28 gallon is what it uses for refill. That's at least what the Toto that they apparently copied does. Drain the tank and you're talking about around 2.2 gallons into the bowl and .8 on the refill.

    Whatever. Live and learn, right?
Similar Threads: Made toilet
Forum Title Date
Toilet Forum discussions If your toilet has a connector made by Watts Apr 18, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions Looking for a toilet NOT made in China Oct 24, 2010
Toilet Forum discussions What TOTO Toilettes are made in the United States? Dec 15, 2009
Toilet Forum discussions Who Made Sears Brand Toilets In 1980? Apr 8, 2009
Toilet Forum discussions US made low flow toilets Apr 6, 2009

Share This Page