Is the plumber responsible for sizing my boiler?

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slygroovis

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I asked my plumber if he could install a combi boiler. He said yes. He installed a dramatically undersized unit. It is a unit designed for a 1 br apartment. My house is a 4 br, 3 bath house with w/d and dishwasher. My question is: Is my plumber legally responsible for undersizing the boiler? The house would not pass inspection until I installed a power vent hot water heater to meet my demand needs.
 

Gary Swart

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I'm not sure, but you may have a legal problem. I'd like to say that your plumber should have known what size was required, but if you signed a contract for the smaller unit, then that may have given him the OK for the small unit. I would suggest that if he won't remove the small boiler and replace it with the properly sized unit, you should visit an attorney.
 

Reach4

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slygroovis is ambiguous, and may be being coy or sly.

He did not say he bought the boiler from the plumber. He did not say that the plumber selected the boiler. He did not identify the boiler or list BTU, but just characterized it as a 1 br apartment sized unit.
 

Jadnashua

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A very tight house does not need a very big boiler to keep it warm. The vast majority of houses have a boiler 2-5x bigger than the ideal for efficiency. The boiler probably can supply one bathroom's use at a time with hot water when used as a combi, but probably would fail to support multiple users. It could also probably supply all of the hot water needed if it instead were used to heat potable water with an indirect installed. It all depends on what you expect. Most Americans are into excess and don't like restrictions, and our energy costs are quite low compared to many places around the world. Without knowing more, it's really hard to say how what you have would perform. The old school X amount of BTU's per square foot is usually WAY off from reality, and will oversize the boiler considerably.
 

Gusherb94

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Now how did your plumber determine what size boiler you needed? And how in the world did you come to the conclusion that it's way undersized?

You can't expect a proper answer with that piddly bit of info you gave.
 

hj

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The concept of mercantibility states that when a "professional" furnishes an item, he is certifying that it is the "proper one" for the application. MANY installers have had to replace improperly sized equipment.
 

Magneto

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I agree with the majority here. Any plumber would know how to properly size a boiler, and if anything would suggest a boiler about 20% larger than necessary to ensure its ability to function under high demands.
 

hj

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quote; Any plumber would know how to properly size a boiler

Actually, very few would since heating is a specialty trade that not all plumbers are certified to do.
 

Jadnashua

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FWIW, lots of HVAC guys don't do a proper job of sizing a heating plant...it is still very common for them to install one way too big for the actual needs. The thought is...they don't get called back if it's too big, but if it's too small, and can't keep the place warm, they will. But, too big means extra costs up front, poorer efficiency, shorter cycle times (lots more on/off cycles), and thus, often, shorter life and costs every billing cycle for fuel.

Under an ideal situation (impossible to produce), the heating system on the coldest design day, would run 100% of the time and just be able to keep up. Any time things are warmer, the heating system is too big, and needs to cycle on and off to keep from overheating the place. Cycles also mean less even temperature and wear and tear. A heating system becomes very inefficient if it doesn't run long enough to become fully warmed up internally, and then when it is shut off, that heat held internally is just, for the most part, wasted.
 

Gusherb94

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FWIW, lots of HVAC guys don't do a proper job of sizing a heating plant...it is still very common for them to install one way too big for the actual needs. The thought is...they don't get called back if it's too big, but if it's too small, and can't keep the place warm, they will. But, too big means extra costs up front, poorer efficiency, shorter cycle times (lots more on/off cycles), and thus, often, shorter life and costs every billing cycle for fuel.

Under an ideal situation (impossible to produce), the heating system on the coldest design day, would run 100% of the time and just be able to keep up. Any time things are warmer, the heating system is too big, and needs to cycle on and off to keep from overheating the place. Cycles also mean less even temperature and wear and tear. A heating system becomes very inefficient if it doesn't run long enough to become fully warmed up internally, and then when it is shut off, that heat held internally is just, for the most part, wasted.

I saw this first hand a couple years ago in our own home. Went from a 80% furnace of 80,000 BTU's capacity, to a 97% model with 58,000 BTU's of capacity (heat loss calc was done and said we needed 60k).

Went from setting it back from 70 to 65 at night to keeping it at 70 24/7 and the gas usage still went down a good bit. The new one runs considerably more too. It'll run continuous in first stage at 0 degrees, and at -15 or so will run continuous in second stage.
 
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