Is it a full moon?

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by speedbump, May 4, 2007.

  1. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    I had an internet customer who read the Franklin Book from cover to cover. (according to him) He tells me that I sent him the wrong wire. He bought a 1.5hp 20 gallon per minute two wire submersible and so many feet of 12-2/with ground. He called today giving my assistant a ration of crap about us sending the wrong wire. He said he needs 12-3/with ground. He has to have a neutral. He said in case the neutral opens one could get electrocuted. Now, I haven't read Franklin from cover to cover and haven't read the National Electrical code (nor do I want to) but this guy says I'm crazy. Every appliance that uses 230 volts to include stoves, submersible pumps and air conditioners need a neutral and a ground. And a case ground. These are 230 volt appliances. I tried to tell him that the green wire was supposed to be tied to the casing and no neutral was necessary for a 230 volt appliance, but he argued away.

    Is it just me, or is this guy on some kind of narcotic?

    bob...
  2. Pumpman

    Pumpman Pump Sales

    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    So. Cal
    You're right Speed. There's no neutral with 230V. Just two hot legs and a ground.
    Ron
  3. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Thanks Ron, I thought it was just the full moon. By the way, he called back and apologized for being rude, then told me, this was a sub panel for a barn. Now we know why he needs a neutral. Before that it was strictly for his well. The plot thickens.

    bob...
  4. Raucina

    Raucina Previous member

    Messages:
    515
    If you are discussing 230v appliances such as dryers and ranges, [items with reistance heating elements] you are required to ground the case to green, and you will need a neutral to modulate the elements. 4 wires.

    Why didnt you ask him what he would do with that neutral down the well when there is no wire on the pump to connect it to? Wire it to the drop pipe?
  5. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    I never heard that before. I learn something everyday.

    I did ask him about the neutral and where he expected to hook it up. He kept saying he had to bond it to the casing. He was maybe a brick shy of a full load.

    bob...
  6. alternety

    alternety Like an engineer

    Messages:
    651
    Location:
    Washington
    I am not sure about the "modulate the heaters" reason, but many such appliances have components that use 120 V (clocks) and they need the neutral. I believe current code requires 4 wires for such appliances. New appliances seem to lack a cord and you have to buy and install a cord according to your existing connections (3 or 4 wire). They will all be able to do 4 wire with the right cord.

    My gut feeling on heating mmodulation would be a solid state control or simply switching multiple resistive heaters rather than needing a neutral for 120 V to work.
  7. Raucina

    Raucina Previous member

    Messages:
    515
    Older ranges had dual [internal to the element] coils and used various combinations of 120-240 to obtain heat ranges. Newer ones seem to use variable power control - pulse width modulation with or without thermostat or thyristor phase control. Those controls and perhaps the clock need a neutral, typically.

    I dont really know about heat control within electric dryers, but they certainly have a neutral terminal, and probably for similar reasons.
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