Is HPWH reliability still an issue?

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Charles2

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I'm seeing a lot of negative feedback on the reliability of HPWH's. Are they much more prone to problems than straight resistance heaters? If you had to choose a 50-gallon domestic model, what would you choose?
 

Dj2

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"If you had to choose a 50-gallon domestic model, what would you choose?"

My choice: a conventional WH.
 

Charles2

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Firm on electric because there is no gas service to the house. Does a reliable 50-gal domestic HPWH exist?
 

Dj2

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"I am asking specifically about HPWH's."

You sound firm on electric and firm on this question too...

The answer is: 1. How long have they been making conventional gas or electric water heaters? - A long, long time.
2. How long have they been making heat pump water heaters? - Short, short time.

You saw the complaints on the HPWHs. Gas/electric water heaters have complaints too, but not as many. But if you want a heat pump WH, Rheem is a good place to look.
 

Charles2

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Rheem has been making heat pumps for a long, long time. And I've been very happy with their straight electric water heaters. On the other hand, maybe a HPWH is more like a refrigerator than a central air conditioner, so does that give Whirlpool the edge?
 

JerryR

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I replaced our 50 gallon electric water heater about 3 years ago with a standard 50 gallon dual 4500 watt element water heater. At the time hybrid heat pump water heaters were relatively new and there was reported reliability issues.

If I were to replace mine today I would install a hybrid heater and buy it from big box store with their $69 for a 5 year parts and labor warranty.

Florida cost to power a standard element heater is only about $18/month. A hybrid would reduce that to possibly $7/month

Pros:
$300 tax credit
$130/year electric savings.
Dehumidification and cooler temps in garage
Electric savings pay for the hybrid heater after 8.5 years

Cons:
Initial net cost after hybrid rebate is $700 more. Break even takes about 5 years.
Additional plumbing for condensation line
 

Dana

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Stiebel Eltron's heat pump water heaters have a good track record. Their Accelera 220E (220 liters, or about 58 gallons) runs about $2500 at internet pricing) .

The first generation GE GeoSprings were among the worst and the product line never got over the reputation, even though the product did (at least sort-of-mostly...) . The second generation built in Kentucky was considerably better but not bug free. The more recent versions seem to pretty good (now that GE is getting out of that business), but I can't point to any hard published data on any of it.

An old school resistance type hot water heater is a much simpler beast (no moving parts, no refrigerants to leak, or blowers to fail, and dumb electromechanical controls). They have gone through literally 1000s of design iterations, and are manufactured in high volumes, which has evolved them into pretty reliable & low cost (except for the operating cost.)

In some markets Wi-Fi enabled hot water heaters can be compensated for grid stabilization services by aggregators, in locations where the utility regulations allow third party aggregators to bid into frequency control or demand response markets, and pay the water heater's owner a fee for the ability to control their water heater to deliver those grid services.

I'm pretty sure the vertically integrated statewide monopoly Georgia Power isn't running that sort of program though. Only in the past year or so have they been forced by the state legislature to allow third party ownership of rooftop solar, which I'm sure they view as the camel's nose under their monopoly tent that could eventually bring them down (or at least their net revenues.)
 

Charles2

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I'm pretty sure the vertically integrated statewide monopoly Georgia Power isn't running that sort of program though. Only in the past year or so have they been forced by the state legislature to allow third party ownership of rooftop solar, which I'm sure they view as the camel's nose under their monopoly tent that could eventually bring them down (or at least their net revenues.)

Man, I hear ya. I'm under Georgia Power. Go a few miles north of here into Jackson county where Jackson EMC rules, and solar power is reimbursed at 4x what GP will pay.
 

ruthrj18

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Dont want to be dramatic, but I had an absolutely awful morning thanks to my RHEEM heat pump water heater. Less than a year old, 50 gallon Professional Prestige unit. It all started with an error code A004. For simplicity's sake, I'm going to just copy and paste my email I sent to Rheem customer service a couple hours ago. I swear to god the contents are not an exaggeration. Extremely thankful we were home when this happened. Going to have Hurricane Mathew coming at us and we won't have hot water but at least everybody is ok. I'll be sure to follow up with you all if I make any progress with RHEEM:

---------------

Good afternoon,

I spoke with technical support today 2x regarding my hybrid water heater. During the first call, we diagnosed an issue with my heater: the compressor had failed and I'd have to go through the outlet I purchased it from for replacement. I was advised to switch the heater to electric only mode. I let the representative know the top of the heater above the compressor was warm to the touch and I smelt an electric burning smell. Was the product still safe to use? I was assured it was. I went back in the home (heater is in the garage).

Ten minutes later, the lights were flickering in the house. I went out to the garage to investigate and as soon as I turned the corner and saw the heater, KABOOM. A ball of sparks exploded out of the top of the heater where the compressor is. I ran inside to get my wife, infant and toddler out of the house. I gave my wife the phone and said call 911 if I tell you to. With the heater still billowing smoke, I ran into the garage to flip the breaker off for the heater. The smoke began to clear and I thought the house was safe again.

I called the heat pump water heater customer service number again to report the incident. I told them how I just called and was told it needed to be replaced, and subsequently blew up. At first the tech was kind of rude saying, well, we already told you it needs to be replaced through the vendor. I said, I don't think you understand the gravity of what just happened. I could've lost my house based on what I was advised to do per our last phone call. If this error ever comes up again, you should never allow someone to leave this thing powered given the error and description I provided!

I was assured it would be brought to the attention of an engineer. At no point was my name, address, or serial number recorded.

Should I still go through the vendor for return? I absolutely will never want a RHEEM heat pump hybrid heater in my home again after that debacle, and honestly I think something more needs to be done here.This product is a threat to people's lives and property with how this was handled. I would absolutely appreciate a phone call back with a plan on how your company would like to move forward or investigate this. I'll go through the vendor on Monday if I don't hear anything back from you all and will likely be reporting this to my local media if this isn't resolved to my satisfaction. I absolutely want to replace this with a standard electric model somehow and soon no matter who the manufacturer is.

Thank you for your thought and effort in this issue.

Sincerely,
*************
 

ruthrj18

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Report filed, thank you again. I didn't scream like a little girl when it blew up, I promise. Just glad I didn't panic and thought to turn the breaker off as soon as I could. I couldn't imagine that happening in the middle of the night, I don't think everybody would have done the same thing.
 

ruthrj18

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Went out to inspect the heater a little closer now that my hands stopped shaking lol. Something failed in a spectacular fashion in there, that's for sure. Looks like some kind of oil is all over the top of the tank itself where the compressor is housed. Just enough seeped out to run down the back of the tank and onto the floor. That electrical pan definitely wasn't corroded or looked like that when installed. Seems to have an oily film all over the underside of it.
 

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FullySprinklered

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Let someone else be the guinea pig on the latest stuff. Stick with tried and true and play it safe.
Bring in your lawn furniture if you want to keep it. I came up from Fl a couple of decades ago, but I still keep up with the weather down there out of habit.
I haven't seen Jim Cantore yet. Where the hell is he at?
 

ruthrj18

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All prepped and ready! Trees were trimmed in the spring and nothing loose outside.

Saw a post on facebook earlier that Jim was in Melbourne
 
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