is 1.46 manganese a problem?

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by gerrythegreat, Nov 30, 2006.

  1. gerrythegreat

    gerrythegreat New Member

    Messages:
    7
    I am getting prices for a new softener and the 2 first companies that tested my water never mentioned that I needed a specific machine for manganese but the 3 company told me i needed a specific machine (1000.00 $ canadian) cause my manganese had a reading of 1.46ppm , does it make sense?


    thank you
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2006
  2. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Your level is almost 30 times the US EPA secondary standard of 0.05 mg/litre for manganese.

    You should research what you want to achieve for final water quality, and then get a money-back guarantee from any vendor who sells you a system. You should also get a test for iron as it is often found with manganese.

    You need a complete water test and a total solution before you buy a system.

    http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AE009
    From the link above:
    Manganese: (MCL = 0.05 mg/l). Excess manganese in a diet prevents the use of iron in the regeneration of blood hemoglobin. Large doses of manganese cause apathy, irritability, headaches, insomnia, and weakness of the legs. Psychological symptoms may also develop including impulsive acts, absent-mindedness, hallucinations, aggressiveness, and unaccountable laughter. Finally, a condition similar to Parkinson's disease may develop.

    http://www.phosphatesfacts.org/pdfs/Potable%20Water%20Treatment.pdf

    http://www.epa.gov/safewater/contaminants/index.html

    There are several processes for dealing with manganese and you should try to learn as much as you can about them before you buy a system. You will want to learn the final quality from the system and the operating cost, as well as the initial cost of the system.
  3. gerrythegreat

    gerrythegreat New Member

    Messages:
    7
    thanx bob,

    are ppm and mpl the same?


    The iron was at 1.5. Is manganese a problem if we dont drink the water?

    thank you
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2006
  4. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Parts per million and milligrams per liter are the same as long as you are working with dilute solutions in water where one liter is one kilogram.

    Since the US EPA only considers manganese a secondary contaminamt, I suspect that the rather dire effects described at the first link of my earlier posting probably apply to much higher levels than 0.05 mg/liter.

    At the levels that usually occur in water supplies, both iron and manganese are more associated with taste and color, including staining of clothes in laundry. It is also possible to get iron-based bacteria that make a mess of things.

    There is a pretty good site that the state of Maine operates that discusses a lot about water quality and wells.
    http://www.umaine.edu/WaterResearch/outreach/safe_drinking_water_digest.htm

    There is a recent story about manganese is drinking water in Madison, Wisconsin that cites an EPA recommended health standard of 300 ppb, which is 0.3 mg/liter. http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=/tct/2006/05/17/0605170487.php

    http://www.dhs.ca.gov/ps/ddwem/chemicals/manganese/notificationlevel.htm
    The following is copied from the site at the link immediately above:
    "However, manganese at very high levels can pose a neurotoxic risk (ATSDR, 2000; US EPA, 1996). For example, neurologic damage (mental and emotional disturbances, as well as difficulty in moving—a syndrome of effects referred to as "manganism") has been reported to be permanent among manganese miners exposed to high levels of airborne manganese for long periods of time. Lower chronic exposures in the workplace resulted in decrements in certain motor skills, balance and coordination, as well as increased memory loss, anxiety, and sleeplessness (ATSDR, 2000). US EPA (1996), in developing an oral reference dose for manganese based on dietary intake, mentions an epidemiological study in Greece that showed an increase in neurologic effects such as weakness and fatigue, disturbances in gait, and neuromuscular effects, in people whose drinking water contained 1.6 to 2.3 mg/L. Uncertainties about the levels of dietary manganese and the amount of drinking water consumed did not enable US EPA to use these data for risk assessment purposes."

    Manganese in your water is in the range where there is a lot of uncertainty regarding health effects if you drink it. If it were mine, I would do more research and probably treat it before drinking it long term. However, it does not appear to be something that requires immediate action to avoid health problems.
  5. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The guy either doesn't know what he is talking about or more likely he's lying to make a larger sale. Water softeners remove manganese. The iron and manganese will have to be compensated for when they size and then program the softener.

    No dealer will give you a guarantee as to how equipment will perform that you operate and maintain.

    Manganese is not a primary contaminate and you shouldn't be concerned with the amount in your water.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2006
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