iron out - whole house

[Ternzer]

I searched but didn't see anything on this.

anyone ever flushed the whole house with iron out? I am rebuilding my iron filter and while I wait for my media it is soaking with iron out solution. so rather than dump it down the drain I was thinking I might flush the house. The previous owner clogged the iron filter and had it in bypass so all my pipes and fixtures have a nice thin coating of rust dust in them.
I figured I would drain the system and water heater then pump the solution through. let it sit for an hour before flushing it with fresh water.
House is all copper pipe.

 

[LLigetfa]

Gary S claims to have done so, but we have never been able to get him to divulge the details so that we can compare results.

I have run SIO through my pipes but have never seen much benefit. Certainly not the benefit that Gary has claimed.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

You could pull the water heater anode, and dump stuff in there. It is a good chance to inspect the anode, and to replace as needed. I put laundry detergent and phosphoric acid in addition to water in my water heater in different washes. I replaced my anode with a powered anode.

Expect to need a 5/8 or bigger impact wrench with a 1-1/16 impact socket to remove the anode. You don't need nearly as much torque when you put the anode back in. I figure some teflon tape and 15 or 20 ft-lb is sufficient.

I did not try do do a separate flush of the pipes. Sounds interesting.

 

[LLigetfa]

When I plumbed my house, I strategically placed draincocks so that I could drain it to Winterize if need be. With these draincocks, I can inject air into the stream of water. The blend of air and water accelerates the flow and blows out any crud that may have accumulated.

One needs to be systematic however, and remove aerators and balance spools, toilet fill valves, etc. or else the crud may be better off left alone.

 

[Gary Slusser]

Since the water line is open now which allows air in to the line to dry out the rust to powder, tapping on the line with something and thumping fairly hard will dislodge the rust dust and it will be flushed out when you turn the water on. That may not get all of it but what will be left should come out with a good soak like 20 minutes with bleach water (or water with Iron Out in it but caution, never mix chlorine and any type of Iron Out or similar products, doing so is dangerous, and don't breath the fumes from IO.

I used to let the chlorine sit in the pipe for 20 minutes and then run water at one faucet for 10-12 seconds, then the same for the next and the next until I had fresh chlorine to all, then wait 20 minutes and start over. I'd watch the color of the flushed water and once it was clean, repeat one more time and quit. I added new chlorine when I thought I needed to by watching the clear sump housing I installed in the main line as part of that process or as part of a UV light installation. That worked on copper and galvanized although galvanized took twice as long.

I used bleach water (or IO once or twice) in well drop pipe and the line from the well into the house. I had a rig I made that allowed me to hook up a jet pump and dovetail to that line in the well and I held the drop pipe with a tripod from my well pump pulling machine with their pump still in the well. I'd run a garden hose from an outside faucet back to my barrels (old salt tanks) that I sucked the fresh solution from and dumped the flush water into to watch for color, allowing the tank to over flow so as to not dig holes in their yard with the garden hose output.

 

[Mikey]

Expect to need a 5/8 or bigger impact wrench with a 1-1/16 impact socket to remove the anode. You don't need nearly as much torque when you put the anode back in. I figure some teflon tape and 15 or 20 ft-lb is sufficient.

I was able to get mine out with a 4-foot breaker bar and a 1/2" drive 6-point socket. I'd heard that using an impact wrench could crack the glass lining. A double-ended breaker-bar tool would be more effective, I would think, but I've not seen one commercially available. If the tank is full of water, it resists turning pretty well. I tighten the new rod with a 2-foot bar and two oomphs; it's never leaked, and is easily removed with the same 2-foot bar and a somewhat bigger oomph.

I'd also read that Teflon tape shouldn't be used, since it might insulate (electrically) the anode rod from the steel tank. Considering the low current involved, and the slim chance the tape will remain intact as the rod is tightened to a zillion ft-lbs, I don't place much credence in this warning.

 

[Reach4]

I was able to get mine out with a 4-foot breaker bar and a 1/2" drive 6-point socket. I'd heard that using an impact wrench could crack the glass lining. A double-ended breaker-bar tool would be more effective, I would think, but I've not seen one commercially available. If the tank is full of water, it resists turning pretty well. I tighten the new rod with a 2-foot bar and two oomphs; it's never leaked, and is easily removed with the same 2-foot bar and a somewhat bigger oomph.

My tank was full of water and piped with sweated copper and no flex. I was moving the full tank with a breaker bar and straining the pipes. I tried leveraging against the top nipples to resist the twist. I failed there too. This sucker was stuck.

I hope I did not crack the glass. If buying a new tank, I would move my new powered anode to the new tank right away before the combination of anode over-torquing and corrosion make things too tight.

I'd also read that Teflon tape shouldn't be used, since it might insulate (electrically) the anode rod from the steel tank. Considering the low current involved, and the slim chance the tape will remain intact as the rod is tightened to a zillion ft-lbs, I don't place much credence in this warning. If I did not have the powered anode, I think I would loosen and teflon-tape the anode to make checking or changing in the future to be a less impact event.

I think you mentioned that before. When I first read that, I figuratively slapped my head, and went down and measured no millivolts from the anode to the copper: zero. So I felt much better. I had used minimal torque when tightening the anode. Apparently that was sufficient to flow the teflon tape to make good electrical contact. I watched for leaks, and none have appeared. I did not use a torque wrench. I think I did something like max hand tight plus 1/4 turn.

My powered anode actually came with teflon tape. I am also thinking that if there was no contact, I think the green LED on the powered anode would not have glowed brightly.

 

[Mikey]

My tank was full of water and piped with sweated copper and no flex. I was moving the full tank with a breaker bar and straining the pipes. I tried leveraging against the top nipples to resist the twist. I failed there too. This sucker was stuck.

Wow. There is a tool called a torque amplifier that works, but they tend to be pricey and might require some fussing to make work on a water heater, rather than, say, a truck wheel. Here's an ad showing a cheap one in use: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200315001_200315001.

 

[Reach4]

Wow. There is a tool called a torque amplifier that works, but they tend to be pricey and might require some fussing to make work on a water heater, rather than, say, a truck wheel.

On a wheel you have other studs/nuts to counter the torque. For a water heater, I guess you would counter the torque by pressing against the farther nipple.

Here is the label on my control for that water heater. I suspect the control may have been made in March 2003 with the water heater installed maybe a year later. That may be way off base, but the old anode rod had all of the magnesium or aluminum eaten away.

 

[Mikey]

On a wheel you have other studs/nuts to counter the torque. For a water heater, I guess you would counter the torque by pressing against the farther nipple.

That Northern Tool wrench didn't need a fixed anchor.

...the old anode rod had all of the magnesium or aluminum eaten away.

Once you've gotten it out the first time, then it's an easy job to pull it out and inspect it. I just looked at mine after 6 years or so, and there was no evidence of erosion. On a new installation, I'd look at it after a year to see how bad things are, then adjust the schedule accordingly. If it's really nasty after a year, I'd probably put in a powered anode.

 

[Reach4]

That Northern Tool wrench didn't need a fixed anchor.

It would have to, or else the tool would rotate. The torques have to balance.

 

[Mikey]

Understood, but instead of a fixed anchor it has another lever arm. Looks even better for use on something (like a water heater) that could itself rotate if it were used as the counter to the torque being applied. Watch the video on the site I referenced above.

 

[Reach4]

In the video it looks as if the person's right hand is providing the torque. I somehow don't think the video is showing 90 ft-lb being applied to the lug nut.

If that moment arm on the tool were pressed against the ground or a box, the operator would not have to provide the high torque. The arm is called a "reaction arm" in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_multiplier http://www.cheaterwrench.com/ is a device for lug nuts, but the unit that you identified would be more useful for a water heater.

On my attempts to get the anode out without spinning water heater, I cut a board to press against I think was the outlet nipple with the other end against the wall. Just couldn't budge it even though I was stressing pipes and moving the water heater. Your method of removing the anode for inspection after a year would have probably worked because corrosion was not adding to the torque required. However I did not have the water heater at that time.

 

[Mikey]

In the video it looks as if the person's right hand is providing the torque. I somehow don't think the video is showing 90 ft-lb being applied to the lug nut.

I wonder about that myself. You could easily apply 90 lb by hand to a reaction bar, though. Norbar's manual (Reference 3 in the Wikipedia article) explains the mechanics of the reaction pretty well (p.64). So, if you could apply 90lb to a 5-foot reaction bar, you could apply 450 ft-lb to the anode, but the water heater would still want to spin -- torque is torque. You'd have to have a reaction bar that anchored to the water heater -- maybe up against one of the nipples, as you suggested, or a fabricated jig of some kind that used both nipples as an anchor.