Ionics 1030B is having issues installed around 2000

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by KimbaWLion, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. KimbaWLion

    KimbaWLion New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    JUST outside Philadelphia
    Hello there peoples,

    I originally had a US Filter water softener that really gave me grief and the company disappeared and I ended up with an Ionics 1030B ( 30000 Grain I believe ) which has served me rather faithfully since then.

    I had it serviced around 2 years ago when the timer stopped working and the local guy covering for Ionics ( Now Puronics ) fixed for about $190 in total service call.

    At the moment I am running on bypass my bypass valve is mounted vertically instead of horizontally too since the Valve on the Ionics is vertically attached, I have not seen that too often.

    At the moment water keeps going over the KCL in the Brine tank and I a getting Crusting of KCL on the outside of the plastic Brine Tank itself. The salt level never has not gone down in ages either and the salt is fairly loose.
    I am getting tired of bailing water out the tank to get around the salt level and it seems to regenerate fine. The salt has not gone down in a while I have NOT tested it I am getting crusting around fixtures and
    my toilets get discolored now where they were not before.
    The last time I checked my hardness it was around 13 grains. My mother who just had her water tested using the same Phila. Suburban water also 13 grains with everything else pretty normal.

    I am just not happy, not sure what do to etc. Do I fix this unit? Do I get a new one? I was looking at an 8 year old Kinetico Model 60 with NEW tanks that is around $500. I was looking at a USWater Systems Unit Fusion Model that is 53000 grain, vortech for backwash, 1.5cu/ft flow with a 1" inch inlet, that lets me cover my 3 person family and any extras. comes with 10% Cross linked Resin etc. etc. that is around $1163 shipped to my door complete. I was toying either either a carbon tank or just installing a large carbon pre-filter this time around too.

    I really do not know what do, repair, cheap out with get the used Kinetico or buy a new as US Water Systems has been around for a bit and the price for their "fusion" system is really hard to beat ( nice stainless steel tank like my Ionics too ) its really easy to program and use too.

    I know you guys get this question a lot but for an engineer I am over thinking this way too much so I'll the experts here. Thanks in advance for the advice! :)
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    IL
    I am not expert. But I am wondering why you use KCl rather than NaCl. I presume you are looking for less sodium in the water. KCl costs more, and I wonder if it is as soluble.

    "I am getting tired of bailing water out the tank to get around the salt level and it seems to regenerate fine. "
    I don't think this is compatible with regenerating fine. You are having to remove brine to keep the brine tank from overflowing? Clearly there is a problem. A clog? I don't know.

    Anyway, I suggest you post one or more photos including the controller, so that when the knowledgeable guys get here, they will have info to give you better suggestions. Also, if they suggest replacement, they will want to know the number of people, bathrooms, water use, etc.
  3. KimbaWLion

    KimbaWLion New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    JUST outside Philadelphia
    I should have made myself a little more clear. By regenerate fine, I mean there is no water all over the place and I can hear it drain as well as watch it drain. I do not get any water over the floor but I DO get have a salt haze over the one side of the brine tank that I NEVER use to get. The Brine tank never overflows but I bail water out to lower the insides to the salt level.
    I can take pictures which I'll post in a little bit BUT I understand the valve is VERY similar to a Fleck 2510 if not a Fleck 2510 modified by Ionics, I understand the parts are interchangeable.
    I use KCl for a few reasons. One is Potassium is good me and I can drink from the other taps if I have to and not worry about the Sodium. When I first got it there was practically NO difference in price. When I did use salt in the beginning other family members said they did not like the state even through the RO. Yes I know it sounds silly but its easier for me to just use the KCl than to listen to it. :)
    As I said I'll post pics and the heavy hitters can guide me. I mean my 3rd Soft water system in 14 years? I am just SOOOO lucky... :)

    Other pertinent information 3 full bathrooms with 2 used most of the time. There are 2 full time people with my daughter away at college so 3 in the late Spring Summer and for a Winter break...
    I have a double 50 gal. hot water tanks system so Hot water is never an issue my house. At the time I installed it Tankless units were not all the rage and cost way more than the dual tanks system I have...
    That may be meaningless additional info but I guess I talk to much...
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
  4. KimbaWLion

    KimbaWLion New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    JUST outside Philadelphia
    Pics as requested:

    Brine Tank smaller.jpg

    Front meter shot smaller.jpg

    Rear valve with bypass smaller.jpg

    Tank shot smaller.jpg

    Water over salt smaller.jpg

    It is dusty back there so I am sorry for that. I think I'll add a shot or 2 with the pressure reducer on it so you can a full Idea of the install.

    The little blue label says .25 GPM .75lb Salt/min
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2013
  5. KimbaWLion

    KimbaWLion New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    JUST outside Philadelphia
    2 more pics from the water supply so you have the full install!

    Back shot PR.jpg

    Front shot PR.jpg
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2013
  6. KimbaWLion

    KimbaWLion New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    JUST outside Philadelphia
    SOME how it double posted no idea so ignore this one and could the admin PLEASE remove this?
    Thank you!
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    IL
    The tall white cylinder in the brine tank contains a safety float. That is to prevent the brine from overfilling. It is normally not there to set the level; the level of refill is set by the timer. The brine should all be sucked out during the Brine Draw cycle. I suspect this is not happening for you for some reason.

    Usually the salt is higher in the brine tank, but I don't think that is really your problem.

    I think you should monitor a cycle.

    Wash that salt residue off of your stuff.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
  8. KimbaWLion

    KimbaWLion New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    JUST outside Philadelphia
    I know that and clean it up so it does look clean, it gets that after about 4 weeks. :) I left that way to show how it turns out after a few regens.
    I'll clean it up now that I have taken pictures.
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    IL
    Wild. Do you get water on the floor during a regen?
  10. KimbaWLion

    KimbaWLion New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    JUST outside Philadelphia
    To be honest when I get down there to check things in the morning the floor is dry. My BEST guess? There is minor wetness that is totally dried up fast and all that is left is the salt film.

    When it regenerates the water goes up the shown pipe and and it empties in a basement sink on the other side of the basement. Something has to be clogged SOMEWHERE but I do not know where to begin.
    When you look at the newer ones you see all electronic controls and a Vortech backwash that uses a lot less water. The resin should still be good as one of the few things Ionics was known for at the time.
    While I have it on bypass I am going to order a water testing kit and recheck everything. I really can't imagine the water quality changing that much but I'll recheck it. Phila. Suburban water AKA Aqua now
    is typical city water and other than chlorine and some hardness I should be okay.

    If I am going to do anything I am debating on adding a carbon house filter vs. a whole unit. Once I know what really is causing this
    I can figure out the cost to benefit of getting a new unit. I just REALLY miss my soft water, I REALLY do... I would have to measure the valve size etc. and then that vertical in out at the by bass would have to be corrected by some shark bytes and Pex... MAYBE I can just add a new more modern valve. I really need help don't I as I am starting to over think everything again...
  11. KimbaWLion

    KimbaWLion New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    JUST outside Philadelphia
    Another Double posting :(
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
  12. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The most common causes of too much brine water are (in order of probability).... loose brine line connections (one on each end of the brine line and the one under the float valve in the brine well in the brine tank where the brine pickup tube connects to the valve), blocked injector or injector screen (under the brass/steel plate held on to the side of the brine valve before the brine line connection), blocked drain line, leaking brine valve (where the brine line connects to the control valve.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
  13. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    IL
    Would that salt residue outside of his tank point to a leak where the brine line enters the brine tank? I leaks water slowly during the refill, but leaks air fast during the brine stage?

    My other thought that the high brine level due to whatever reason is letting water leak out through a seal that is not normally under water.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
  14. KimbaWLion

    KimbaWLion New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    JUST outside Philadelphia
    I spoke to the "unofficial" Ionics Repair people (people that just repair and service Ionics and recommended by them and do NOT sell them). They fixed my timer (Model 3210) with no issues about 2 years ago for a fair price. They are going to come out and look at it for free as I am going to have my water tested and have their "free" evaluation even though they are not going to see me a system. They mainly sell units they make using the Fleck 5600 valve. They told me MOST likely I have a clogged injector. I think tossing in a diagnosis to go along with their 9 point free water test (iron, Ph, Chlorine, harness etc. etc.) is a great deal as they have been in business since 1958 and other than trying to talk me into a Pelican system they are are not really hard selling me.
    They also said most of the parts on the 2510 Valve are the same as Ionics, but NOT quite everything.

    @Gary Thanks for the info Gary it seems you and they agree. I will know at least how my water is after 13 years, see if I need to change anything, and hopefully they can fix/unclog what they have without further to do. They even suggested a worse case scenario of just changing the valve out IF need be though that would not be my first choice and I am not even sure I gain anything.

    @Reach4 The residue comes out a a small over flow plug in the middle of the brine tank at the height of the water you see in the picture. The service company says in their experience with my model it is USUALLY a
    clogged injector. I checked inside the tube and everything SEEMS OKAY...
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
  15. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Refill water would rinse the salt residue off. I think his salt tank is overflowing and the salt fans out, maybe the salt tank is leaning a bit causing the residue to spread out, which salt tends to cause anyway. Under the brine line there is no salt on the salt tank.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
  16. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,942
    Location:
    Ontario California
    The brass brine valve on the control valve is failing. This is common after 10 years. It needs to be replaced.
  17. KimbaWLion

    KimbaWLion New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    JUST outside Philadelphia
    Well that makes it sound easy to fix.
    Anyway the person to evaluate the system and test my water is coming over Tuesday. I will suggest this if he does not see this, though my guess is he will.
    I want to make sure my water has not changed too much and that my 30K water softener is enough, if it stays at 13 Grains it is.

    I am also looking into Mediaguard KDF 55 instead of the silver carbon that I have not replaced in years instead. Anybody here have any experience with it?
    Am I going to assume my resin is still good after all this time?

    @ditttohead Thanks for the info it is appreciated, I'll get to find out if these guys know what they are doing and in the past its been okay....
  18. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I do not like the Mediaguard and your tank may not allow the addition of it because the resin is probably higher than 'normal' but, why do you want one?
  19. KimbaWLion

    KimbaWLion New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    JUST outside Philadelphia
    I was thinking of adding to get rid of the Chlorine in my water vs adding Carbon since the Mediaguard is "suppose" to last 6 yrs give or take and they make it look easy to install.
    I tend to over think a lot and when I see "new" things that could make things a little easier I consider them. Your input is always welcomed and I would
    bet you're MORE then Probable right. I am worried about my resin because it is going on 14 years old... I want to get everything done at once as well as right.
    I hate double work...
  20. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    You should not mix carbon and resin. You can buy new resin online for like $125 per cuft. You can buy a shower head filter to remove chlorine from the shower and a disposable cartridge (carbon) water filter for after the softener.
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