Installing indicator light to show pump working

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by blued, Mar 15, 2007.

  1. blued

    blued New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Hi,

    I have a 2 story house where the top floor consists of two leased apartments. There is one rooftop electrical pump serving the whole building. Problem is, there are sometimes leaks in toilets or elsewhere that keep the pump running continuously and shortens its service life.

    The pump is already connected to an on-off switch downstairs, but I would like to install an indicator light connected to it to show me when the pump is working or not. I already have the indicator light (taken from an old water heater), so can someone tell me how to connect it to the switch I mentioned above? Thanks!
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,503
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    light

    If you wire it to the switch, all it will tell you is that the switch is turned on or off. In order to tell you if the pump is running you have to wire it into the circuit to the pump itself. How you would do that depends on how it is connected now.
  3. Bob1000

    Bob1000 New Member

    Messages:
    114
    Location:
    Egypt
    hi

    I assume that the pump has a pressure switch for the automation , if yes then connect this pilot lamp to the 2 wires which are going out from that pressure switch to the pump
    The idea is when the pressure switch kiks in then it connects the electricity to the pump and to the indicator lamp in the same time so it will show you that the pump is connected and obviously running
  4. blued

    blued New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Thanks for the replies guys!. Its a 220v pressure switch pump (no air tank). And yes I found if I connect the light to the on-off switch it will only tell me if the switch is on-off :p

    OK Bob1000, it would be quite a run for the wires from the pump to downsatirs (probably around 50ft+), wont that cause some form of resistance where the light may not work?

    Pls excuse me fellows, total amateur here I am. :D
  5. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    What kind of switch are we talking about? A pressure switch like we use with a tank or just a toggle switch that turns this pump on or off period?

    bob...
  6. blued

    blued New Member

    Messages:
    8
    The pump has an automatic (electrical) pressure switch on it, the other switch I installed downstairs to turn the pump on/off.
  7. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    This motor must get pretty good workout cycling on and off without a tank or CSV of some kind. The light bulb would too.

    bob...
  8. blued

    blued New Member

    Messages:
    8
  9. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    http://www.davey.com.au/files/D987a%20Torrium%20on%20XJ.pdf

    It looks like you have a pump with a "Smart CSV" that works a lot like someone has suggested on other threads.

    The system already has indicating lights as part of the "Torrium" flow control system. They are low voltage Light Emitting Diodes.

    Your choices would be to run a high voltage line from the pump power to a pilot light where you want it, or use a transformer and run a low voltage light, or run a package of low voltage wires using a Cat 5 cable from the diode circuits to another set of diodes where you can see them. I would do the latter, but you may not have the tools and knowledge to do that.

    My second choice would be the transformer/pilot light to avoid having to string line-voltage wires through the place.

    I am having a hard time imagining why you have the pump on the roof, unless you have a cistern/supply on the roof, which is an unusual installation in the US. Where are you located?

    If I owned a system like yours, I would probably keep a spare unless the dealer is immediately available. I can't imagine that you could call your local plumber to get that Torrium controller fixed.

    I once looked at a Davey pump for a system that needed a low starting current motor. I decided that the non-US fittings and other unique features made it a bad choice to put in a system in the Maine wilderness.
  10. blued

    blued New Member

    Messages:
    8
    I'm in the Middle-east and I have a water tank on the roof. The problem (feature?) of this pump is that its always on with even minimal usage of water (i.e. small leak). The dealer has a good supply of spare parts but you're on your own as far as support goes. The idea of the indicator light is that if its always on, then I can call the tennants upstairs and tell them they may have a leak.
  11. Raucina

    Raucina Previous member

    Messages:
    515
    You could tell if your smart pump is running by using a clamp on [ or wire-in] ammeter at the power out wire from the switch. Might look a bit odd if its on the living room wall however.

    Otherwise you could rig a low voltage wire from the attic, but that seems like a lot of trouble.

    I used to see plug in ammeters for monitoring appliance power use that might have acceptable aesthetics for the home, had a little led readout.

    How long in service, how good is this pump in your opinion?
  12. Raucina

    Raucina Previous member

    Messages:
    515
    Well, its a hideous thought but I have to agree. When the pump burns up get the standard set up and forget an ammeter. Use a big tank or take the power bite and use the sacred CSV
  13. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    I wonder when the people that make those Chinese pumps are going to figure a way to make the entire motor out of plastic?
  14. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    From what I read about the control system, I think you might be well served by installing a small bladder tank on the system. That would reduce the cycling and save some electricity.

    I noticed that the jet and venturi of your pump are made of acetal resin (Usual trade name is Delrin). That can be a problem if there is any disinfectant (chlorine) in the water, as there should be in a large tank where water is stored. Without disinfectant, algae and other things will grow in the tank, but with chlorine disinfectant, the acetal parts will fail.

    Failure of acetal fittings was a big factor in the lawsuits related to polybutylene pipe.
  15. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    I didn't know that Bob, that's good info. So that's what made all the people in Sun City, Fl. get new free plumbing. I always knew those Davey pumps were a little on the junkie side, but they just got junkier. And they are pushing them as booster pumps on chlorinated city water systems. How nice!

    bob...
  16. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Your link didn't work for me.

    I wonder what all the big names say since they are mixing and matching so many things now that their all owned by one of two companies. You might buy a Sta-Rite and find out it's really an Aermotor painted a different color.

    bob...
  17. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Acetal is OK in a well pump where the water is not chlorinated. It is a problem where chlorinated water is stored and pumped into a system.

    The problem doesn't arise quickly at low levels, but you don't want to use acetal in products exposed to oxidizers such as acids and chlorine if you want a long service life.
  18. Raucina

    Raucina Previous member

    Messages:
    515
    I installed several radiant heat systems with polyB pipe in my neighborhood years ago and never had a callback yet. Never used the plastic fittings, and did not chlorinate the water. I worked a bit with polypropylene pipe in eastern europe that uses heat-fusion welding, a German product I think. Great system.

    Here is another opinion on the polyB pipe fiasco...

    A quick look at the past shows that in the vast majority of installed hydronic systems, thermoplastic material is performing flawlessly. The only failures of note are products that were not manufactured according to material specifications or products that were misapplied. One big disappointment for me was when Polybutylene (Poly B) pipe was blamed for massive failures that, in reality, just did not happen. I really liked Poly B pipe. There were isolated failures of pipe, improperly used, in domestic hot water recirculation lines where high continuous flow velocities or high chlorine levels caused deterioration. There were widespread fitting failures, which had nothing to do with the pipe, and there were isolated failures due to excessive heating of Poly B in Southern U.S. attic spaces. There have been widespread problems with oxygen diffusion through Poly B and PEX tubing without oxygen barriers, but you cant blame the pipe  it was the failure of designers and installers to understand that oxygen diffusion could be a problem. Simple precautions could have prevented most of the issues. Once the ambulance chasers were finished with their class action lawsuits however, the product was withdrawn from the North American market and is not likely to be seen again, even though it is still used extensively in other parts of the world.
  19. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    I have 30,000 feet of Poly B in my concrete, no failures in 12 years.

    Rancher
  20. Raucina

    Raucina Previous member

    Messages:
    515
    You must have a heated milking barn? Or are you a landlord too?

    Is that all one building? I do a lot of radiant slab systems.... what sort of fittings did you use?
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