Install 6" PVC cleanout to terra cotta drain tiles

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Sunk

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Background, tree roots have infiltrated a few sections of my drain. I sometimes rent a snake and use my 2.5 cutter, other times I pay it out. Last time it clogged up, they ran a camera down the pipe. I have a 75' run, the worst spot is 50' down the run at 10' depth. The condition of the pipes look good. Problem is that the biggest cutter they can run is a 3 - 3.5 inch due to the cleanout size. Due to the construction of the homes, there is no good way to bring in escavation equipment (no space between homes, homes have attached garages).

On the video, you can see that the cutter just punches a small flap through the roots which seems to fold back across the pipe. They can't run a large cutter since the cleanout it so small.

The company recommended digging up the location where the roots are heavyist and install a 6" cleanout at that location. That way they can run a large cutter and knock out most of the roots. I asked if they could just install the 6" cleanout close to the house either next to, or in place of, the 4" cleanout. He liked the idea to the tune of 2500-3000.

I dug it out to see what the job entails:

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Basically it comes out of the house 4", mates up to a 4" cast iron pipe running down about 4-5', levels out and continues a few feet as cast iron, then joins the 6" drain tiles.

I was planning on doing the job myself but am now having second thoughts. I was thinking of cutting the terra cotta in two places and splicing in a PVC piece that is at 45 degree Tee. Connect it with the rubber couplers, and run it up to the surface. Add some sort of threaded cap on top.

I am concerned about how to cut that terra cotta pipe. Is this something I can realistically do or should I call in the pros? What should this really cost?
 

Dunbar Plumbing

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Use RootX, give it 4 months and send the camera down the pipe halfway down the pipe so you can run the root cutter attachment on your cable machine and watch how you are cutting. Of course you are going to have to run the machine from somewhere else than that cleanout.

Then what you do is bend the end of that cable so it flops and hits the edges of the pipe no matter if it is 3" or 8". With the view of the camera and the use of the drain cleaning machine you should be able to eventually break that root system down enough to where it is not obstructing. A repeat treatment of RootX will most likely end your root intrusions as well.
 

Sunk

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I have many trees and there are many small breaches throughout the line. Just one in particular is nasty. I don't want to kill the trees.

I used root-x the first year I lived here. Not sure how effective it was as it backed up a few days later and they had to resnake. I wasn't so sure that was just another way they were making money off me. Is it as effective as it sounds?

What about copper sulfate? Comments? I have been dumping a container down the toilet once every two months. Not sure if its helping. It typically backs up solid once or twice a year.

I didn't think about bending the snake. That's a great idea. Is it common? Not sure why the guy that ran the camera down there didn't try it.

They marked the spot on the ground above the worst spot. I was thinking that I could pound some old gas pipes into the ground above that location to open a small hole. I could pour in a container of copper sulfate and trickle a hose there to saturate the ground below. Hopefully discouraging root growth in that area. I read about that trick years ago somewhere.

Adding the larger cleanout sounds like a waste of time and money based on these suggestions.
 

Sunk

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I just followed that rootx link. Do you recommend that small can that I poor into the cleanout and flush a toilet or some form of commercial process that insures the pipe is fully saturated (Truck shows up with giant hose).
 

Dunbar Plumbing

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RootX takes months for the application to work and what you just described proves that the drain cleaner did not thoroughly clean the line before application. Once those roots die, the annual application is all that is needed for preventative maintenance of the piping to prevent further root intrusions.

Copper Sulfate is a product that has been used for years and is highly recommended from the older genre of plumbers. It is effective but leakage of this product outside the piping system will kill trees without a doubt. It's fallback is that it never reaches the top of the pipe where mop hair roots usually form between sections of pipe. If they made foaming copper sulfate, it would be a great product and comparable to RootX, just that RootX is a safer product by far.....inside and outside of the pipe. Read up on the MSDS sheet on RootX, it is used a great deal in large viewing aquariums at zoos or aquatical establishments.

The bending of the cable is a old trick to scour the pipes walls to more effectively during each revolution it turns. Sometimes it is impossible or damn near hazardous to run a large attachment in the pipe, not knowing where it will hang up in a 90 or offset run of piping. It can be done, I have 2-2foot leaders that I use. One is bent like a banana, the other is normal without bends. The bent one works perfect for larger pipes or pipes I know are offset and need to be cleaned without giving up.

I worked for a union service plumber in Cincinnati Ohio that was famous about gloating that he could unclog any sewer line in town. "If you cannot get it open, call us" was his motto. That sucked for us plumbers because he would radio to us and say, "Don't call me until you get it open". And if I couldn't, he'd show up and show me all the tricks he knew to get it open.

Hard work that turned out to be an educational lesson in disguise. I'm glad to have the knowledge; makes for better executions of drain cleaning jobs.
 
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Sunk

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Just to confirm, there is no need to modify the physical pipes. Just get the rootx in there, wait a few months, have it snaked with the bend in the line (I like that modified short extension), and retreat with rootx. Follow up with yearly rootx treatments.
 

Dunbar Plumbing

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2 pounds covers 50 feet
4 pounds covers 100 feet


The application has to be done from the farthest point in your system that covers all of your drain lines underground, even including the pipes inside your house unless you are positive there are no root intrusions inside.

From there, you apply the mixture into the piping DRY, then follow with 3-5 gallons of water behind it. DO NOT MIX THIS TOGETHER OUTSIDE THE PIPE. YOU WILL HAVE A BUILDING OR BACK YARD FULL OF FOAM.

After applying, do not run any water in that sewer line, meaning no toilets flushed, no sinks ran, not even using the toilet whatsoever; urinating/defecating in a toilet displaces water in bowl which will send water into the drains which will send your pricey foam into the sewer where it serves absolutely no purpose at that point. You want that foam to sit and concentrate on the roots so that they are fully covered with the chemical.

The roots will die out over a period of 3 months and fall into the sewer line and wash away.

The proper method to best use this product is to either apply within 1 hour of root cutting or 6-8 weeks after drain cleaning is performed. Roots have a built-in protective feature similar to your shrubs and other foilage in your yard that when you cut the vegetation it will sap over where you cut. It's best to apply this product right when the roots are cut in order to attack them at their most vulnerable time.
 

Sunk

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The inside lines are clear. 1/2 have been replaced with PVC last year due to improper slope causing rotted cast iron. My outside cleanout is only a few feet from the house. I have dug up most of that area. I did have a large root running straight down into the place where the cast iron connects to the drain tile. I chain saw'ed that one right outta there as it prevented me from digging the hole.

Thanks for all the advice.
 

hj

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snake

What kind of a snake do they use. Many companies make an expanding head that goes through a small opening but then springs to full size inside the pipe. IF their brand does not make one, there are often adapters that convert various snakes to the Spartan, or other, companies that do make them.
 

Sunk

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When I have been here to watch them do the job, they used old Spartans. I am very disappointed that the guys didn't suggest other solutions. I have been using that company since 96 when I bought this house. I think its time for a change. Might call roto router. Definately going to have an educated discussion next time.
 

Sunk

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HJ, what brand has that expanding head (or at least the most popular brand)?
 

hj

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Head

I have had mine for more years than I can remember, but I am sure it is a Spartan because of the connection. They make/made two versions. A small one, for up to 4 or 5 inch pipes, and one for larger size pipes.I use a Spartan to Burton adapter.
 
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