Information on Distance between Pump Pressure Switch and Pressure Tank

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by sanghraa, Jun 16, 2014.

  1. sanghraa

    sanghraa New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    CA
    Need help. I am new to the working of Well and Pump system. We moved into this house which has well system. The pump and the control valve is less than 2 years old.
    The setup is as below. My well and my house is 200 feet apart and my house is at an elevation difference with 100 ft higher.

    The setup is as below:
    - The Pressure tank is at the house
    - Pressure Switch is near the well pump :
    - Distance between the pressure switch and the pressure tank is 200 ft
    - Pressure Switch : Cut in 130 Cut Out : 150
    - Pressure Tank : 40 PSI

    I was told by the installer that the difference in pressure setup is due to elevation difference.

    The pressure control valve keep tripping.

    I spoke to the well guy and he indicated that the setup is wrong and that there has to be a pressure tank next to the pressure switch in order to make
    sure that the pump does not cycle too often. with the current setup the pump cycles a lot when it reaches the Cut in.

    Any guidance on what could be wrong is helpful.
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,386
    Location:
    IL
    He is right, that would be better than what you have now if the pressure tank is rated for such pressures. Most are not., Moving the pressure switch inside to the pressure tank is much better. How does the power get to the well now?
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  3. sanghraa

    sanghraa New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    CA
    Thank you of your reply.

    The power to the well is on a different meter. So I cannot put the pressure switch close to the house where my pressure tank is as there is no wiring running from the house to the well.

    Is it best to install another pressure tank close to the swtich near the well.
  4. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,386
    Location:
    IL
    An additional tank would be much better than just moving the tank as far as keeping the pressure in the house from fluctuating too much.

    I am thinking that you could run a smaller pair of wires from a pressure switch at the house to control a relay at the well. Regarding a tank at the well, I see Well-X-Trol tanks are rated up to 150 PSI. http://www.amtrol.com/wellxtrol.html That is a top quality pressure tank. There may be tanks rated for even higher pressures. Does it freeze where you are?

    I would wait until you get another opinion before acting on this. I am not a pro, and I have no experience with a system like yours. How long does your pump run (minimum) now each time it turns on? If it is already a minute or more, you might get by with a smaller tank at the well head than your one in the house.
  5. sanghraa

    sanghraa New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    CA
    It get colder below freezing a few days (4 to 5) a year. My pump run under a minute or so. (Not sure have not timed it). Running the wire from the well to the house will be challenging.
    So research has lead me to almost conclude that there has to be a pressure tank close to the pressure switch. Having multiple pressure tank only helps.
  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,386
    Location:
    IL
    Yes.

    The advantage of the pressure switch being near the point of use is that pressure in the house would depend less on how much water was being drawn. The pressure drop in the pipe from the well is the sum of the gravity head plus the friction in that pipe. If you do decide to run wires, somebody could probably suggest what hardware to use. It would have been easier if the wire had been run when the pipe was run, but that was not on your watch.

    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hazen-williams-water-d_797.html is one of the available calculators to calculate PSI loss for a given flow.
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  7. sanghraa

    sanghraa New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    CA
    Thank you for your input
  8. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,485
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    To get an Amtrol tank rated for 150 PSI it has to be a 44 gallon size (WX250) or larger. Even so at 130/150 a 44 gallon tank only hold 5.3 gallons, so it is not going to help much with run time.

    There is another problem with two tanks at either end of the uphill line. The same way your pressure switch is seeing more pressure now and shutting off the pump on startup, the lower tank will fill first and shut off the pump. Then the lower tank will drain into the upper tank and the pump will start again, filling the lower tank and shutting off. This could happen 2 or 3 times before you get the upper tank filled.

    The friction loss in the pipe from running the pump at full flow will always make sure the bottom tank fill before the upper tank. Friction loss always makes tanks in different locations not be able to fill at the same rate or time.

    If you install a Cycle Stop Valve before the lower tank and set it at about 140 PSI, the tanks will be filled at only 1 GPM. When filling the tanks at 1 GPM there is no friction loss in the pipe and the upper tank will fill at the same time and rate as the lower tank. So when the pump is shut off at 150 PSI, both tanks will be full.

    A CSV will also make the pump start and stop at 1 GPM, which will eliminate water hammer and keep the pressure switch from bouncing on pump start or stop.
  9. sanghraa

    sanghraa New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    CA
    Below is the summary of your recommendation:
    - Install a 44 Gallon Tank near the Pressure switch and the well which is at the base
    - Maintain the existing 85 Gallon Tank at the house which is uphill
    - Install CSV before the lower tank
  10. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,485
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    That pretty much sums it up.
  11. sanghraa

    sanghraa New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    CA
    If I am installing CSV then do I need a 44 Gallon Tank at the base.

    Can CSV alone solve my problem.

    I understand that I will not have any reserve water in case of no electricity.

    But assuming that 85 gallon at the house should suffice given Electricity goes out only 4 to 5 hours / 1 or 2 days a year.
  12. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,485
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The CSV will make it better by giving a mechanical soft start and soft stop. But you still need a tank with the pressure switch to keep the pressure switch from bouncing on start up. The 44 gallon size is needed because that is the smallest tank you can get with a 150 PSI rating. The 85 gallon tank at the top of the hill only holds about 25 gallons of water. And that is only IF you are lucky enough for the tank to be full when the power goes off. Murphy's law says the tank will be almost empty anytime the power goes off. Stick a couple of 5 gallon jugs in a closet.
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