In floor Radiant heat not working (under concrete slab)

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NC1

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Hi, I have a new radiant heating system. I have a zone with 5 loops and 2 of which are not working. I was only aware of one at first. The plumber came said it would be a air lock and then bled the system. Also said its a big zone (but was engineered by a designer so not sure how that could be), but turned down the balancing valve in another loop and kept this one way open as he went on to say that maybe that loop wasn't getting enough water in the pipes or was cooling by the time it got there. Since he's left i see again that heat has stopped goin in that loop. Got a flir infrared camera to check and noticed another loop in that zone not heating. Any thoughts would be helpful. Thank you.
 

Dana

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What he said- you still have some air purging to do. Purging all the air out of larger zones can be an exercise in tedium, and even if you manage to get some flow going you're not necessarily done on the first or second shot, since bubbles can continue to aggregate. But with persistence it will eventually get there.
 
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Jadnashua

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A good air eliminator in the system can help.

FWIW, no one loop should normally be longer than 200' with 1/2" pex. You could feed more than one loop in a zone, though, from your manifold.

Did they install insulation underneath the slab? What about moisture mitigation? Without both, you can lose a lot of your heat into the ground.
 

NC1

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Hi, Thanks for the reply. My zone has 4 loops in it. First one 210ft, then 265ft, then 245 ft and then 270ft. Plumber says my design was professionally designed/engineered and says 300 feet is the max and says city also inspected and passed it. He bled the air when he came. He said basically 1.5mins per zone is all you need. I did about 5 minutes per zone once he left. Should I do it longer? He also said my recirc pump was not working properly so he changed it to a Grundfos UPS15-58FC. I used to have a Grundfos Watts UPS15-58FRLC (1 year old) there but he said those don't work and I should call Grundfos for a refund but that's another story. I'd just be happy to get my heating system working properly. The other 6 zones in my house work great. If all balancing valves in the zone are open i have a hard time seeing any activity in the longest loops, but if i turn them down a bit as two of them heat great i get activity with my flir cam. My issue sometimes though is even if I turn off the other three loops I still don't get a lot of activity in the 4th and longest loop. Should I just keep bleeding air? How long is recommended? Apologies for the long reply; just don't know what to do here. Thanks. Oh and there is insulation underneath the slab and a vapor barrier. Thanks.
 

Jadnashua

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YOu can search around and get an idea of the head for the sum of all of the zones on a pump...then, you'd select the pump required to overcome that head. When balancing loops, you generally run the longest one full open, and then start to throttle the shorter ones, more as they get shorter.

It can be hard to know for sure when you've gotten all of the air out of a loop when there are elevation changes...you need enough pressure to force water through. If the pump doesn't have enough head to move the water with the air trapped, you need to add pressure from the water supply to raise it. Note, though, every time you add potable water into the system, you're also adding minerals and some trapped air. That trapped air is what can cause corrosion inside of the system. If it is truly purged of all air, any dissolved air will end up rusting things, but once used up, that stops and does not progress any further. Once you have all of the air outside of the system, it doesn't take anywhere near as much work from the pump since when some water is going up, the same amount is falling down to help carry it around the loop(s). Prior to that, it has to have enough head to push it up over that high point - that's where you may need help from the supply system's pressure and volume. I've found that running the discharge from trying to purge a loop into a partially filled bucket of water via a hose lets me both see and hear when it is running clear with no air bubbles. Essentially, you continue until it runs clear, however much time it takes.
 
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NC1

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Thank you for the reply. I will try and purge air with pressure this time. Come to think of it plumber was pulling a lever keeping the boiler pressure sensor under 30psi. This zone is all one floor.
 

NC1

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and also just a question having to turn down certain loops, is that the plumbers error in not starting a new manifold i believe its called within a zone? Thanks in advance.
 
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