Bannerman
Well-Known Member
If each tank is 3 cuft, wouldn't 'C' then be 60?
I'm Starting To Get My Softener Replaced.
- Thread starter DownTheWell
- Start date
Users who are viewing this thread
Thanks. I really thought I had put 60. Edited the known errors out.
Last edited:
Sponsor
Paid Advertisement
DownTheWell
New Member
Setting it per the settings you suggest changes the current display of gallons remaining from 1017 to 705.
Attachments
True. And also note that the BF (brine fill minutes went down a lot. Each of your brine fill minutes represents 1.5 pounds of salt. So while comparing gallons, also compare gallons per pound of salt.
DownTheWell
New Member
"IF your BLFC is 0.5 I would use the following. It may not be optimum, but its what I currently think. Let me know if you find mistakes."
I attached a picture
Injector as 3? - This is the Bflc
Drain Flow 50 or 30? gpm. The number isn't perfectly legible to me.
The capacity is 96,000 per tank
DownTheWell
New Member
My real question is why with the settings I had, that the system cycled through both tanks new and was fine but, after each tank was on it's second run of normal use, I could tell the water was harder and I'd get some of the frosting type look on glasses in the dishwasher.
That's my main concern.
I'd like to have it set for the water to be soft, as soft as when each of these tanks were first used.
It is no where near as bad as what I had before, with the old softener.
I'm also pretty happy with how it went overall.
The two tanks came dinged, I sent the company pictures and they sent me 2 replacements.
I had a very small drip from the 'in', right at my connection but it stopped. The secondary units top leaked slow, where the ring of the in-out piece connects to the part that is threaded, there is a barely visible seam around the top there and water would bubble up in a spot there, that's also stopped.
That's my main concern.
I'd like to have it set for the water to be soft, as soft as when each of these tanks were first used.
It is no where near as bad as what I had before, with the old softener.
I'm also pretty happy with how it went overall.
The two tanks came dinged, I sent the company pictures and they sent me 2 replacements.
I had a very small drip from the 'in', right at my connection but it stopped. The secondary units top leaked slow, where the ring of the in-out piece connects to the part that is threaded, there is a barely visible seam around the top there and water would bubble up in a spot there, that's also stopped.
Bannerman
Well-Known Member
No picture presently attached.
No. The BLFC (Brine Line Flow Control) is a flow restriction device that appears as a black washer with a specific size whole in the centre. It controls the flow rate to refill the brine tank. The injector controls the flow rate of the brine draw from the brine tank as well as the resin slow rinse rate.
Drain flow (DLFC) for that diameter tank should be about 5.0 gpm depending on your water temperature.
You have now clarified the total capacity per tank but with the suggested settings, the softener will initiate regeneration when 60,000 grains has been utilized. This is an optimal salt efficiency setting equal to 6 lbs/cuft.
Take it easy. No need to roar.
5.0 GPM would make sense for drain flow for drain flow on a 14 inch softener tank. That controls the backwash rate.
BLFC is a different thing: that controls the brine fill rate. Is there another label, I hope?
I think a #3 Injector yellow -- on the graph on page 40 of the 9100 manual shows about 0.49 GPM draw at 40 PSI... That draws the brine from the brine tank by acting as a venturi pump.
Bannerman
Well-Known Member
Your prior settings depleted the total capacity of the resin but the initial BF=12 setting, assuming your BLFC is actually 0.5 gpm, only placed enough water in the brine tank to dissolve enough salt to regenerate at the most, 60K grains.
The system can be very salt efficient when regenerated when only a portion of capacity has been consumed, but that portion consumed is based upon the total capacity being first regenerated to full capacity. Similar to filling the fuel tank in your vehicle and then deciding to never drop below 1/4 tank remaining before refilling.
Your new resin was already regenerated to full capacity so you would not be experiencing these issues if the appropriate settings had been programmed at the start.
As you had programmed 'C' as 96K, the resin's capacity had then been depleted in each tank, so the total capacity in each will need to be 'topped-up' which will now require regeneration using 54 lbs of salt for each tank. Each gallon of water entering the brine tank will dissolve 3 lbs of salt. As you had previously set BF = 29 minutes, then the brine tank should currently contain enough water to dissolve 43.5 lbs of salt.
After the resin has been 'topped-up', the 60K capacity programmed will be restored with 18 lbs of salt which is also now programmed. (BF = 12 minutes X 0.5 BLFC = 6 gals X 3 lbs/gal = 18 lbs salt).
Last edited:
DownTheWell
New Member
Hah, bold = roar I guess.
It's the way I tried replying, I was trying to on comment #23 of this.
I made comments in the reply, wanted to use highlighter on my comments, couldn't find it, used bold instead. Posted it and saw the way I had replied, was minimized. So I figured no one would really see what I had written, and started trying to say what I wantd to say, again but not embedded within the reply.
And left bold on I guess.
The picture is in the #23 comment.
I pulled the float valve part out of the brine tank and didn't see any markings.
The tube that connects the brine tank to the softener, where it connects at the softener is the picture I attached.
I can't sit down and address this - I sneak time t do this forum and look at the softenener
If you select the part you want to quote, and you have Javasript enabled, you will see a little Reply button a the selected text. Enter your reply below that. There will be QUOTE tags around the quoted stuff. An alternative would be to use italics around the quoted stuff.
You can position the pointer at a new spot and quote an additonal part like this:
That picture is at the drain line (to the floor drain etc), right? Is there maybe another label near the line going to the brine tank? I have never seen a 9100. If there is no label, there are other ways of finding the BLFC value. Asking the seller comes to mind, but there are at least two other ways. This is what the BLFC label looks like on my 5600SXT:
DownTheWell
New Member
The BFLC label says 0.5 GPM. There is a white label and one like yours that I can't make out.
My water seemed like it is getting harder. I had about 18 gallons left with the new settings.
I regenerated it and it never seemed to draw water from the brine tank.
- the cycle started with the water over the float.
- I watched the brine line and the bubbles in it never moved, water level in the brine tank never changed.
When the cycle finished, I took apart both ends of the brine line. All clear.
I siphoned water out of the brine tank until it was a few inches below the float.
Started another regeneration and watched the whole process. Everything seemed to work correctly.
- BD started and counted down from 60.
- Water level hit the top of the air check after about 20 minutes.
- I watched through the brine fill part, it filled the brine tank backup for 12 minutes.
Now that the cycle is all done, I'd say there's 8" of water in the brine tank.
- Is that enough for a regeneration cycle?
I really appreciatte the advice I've gotten on here.
My water seemed like it is getting harder. I had about 18 gallons left with the new settings.
I regenerated it and it never seemed to draw water from the brine tank.
- the cycle started with the water over the float.
- I watched the brine line and the bubbles in it never moved, water level in the brine tank never changed.
When the cycle finished, I took apart both ends of the brine line. All clear.
I siphoned water out of the brine tank until it was a few inches below the float.
Started another regeneration and watched the whole process. Everything seemed to work correctly.
- BD started and counted down from 60.
- Water level hit the top of the air check after about 20 minutes.
- I watched through the brine fill part, it filled the brine tank backup for 12 minutes.
Now that the cycle is all done, I'd say there's 8" of water in the brine tank.
- Is that enough for a regeneration cycle?
I really appreciatte the advice I've gotten on here.
Bannerman
Well-Known Member
12 minutes X 0.5 BLFC = 6 gallons. Each gallon will dissolve 3 lbs of salt so there now would be brine containing 18 lbs of salt.
Brine tanks vary is size so 8"liquid height in one tank maybe 12" in another.
So it sounds as if the brine tank float was blocking things because the water level was so high. Makes sense.
This cycle started with more brine in the brine tank than normal. If the brine took that long normally, you would increase the BD setting.
8 inches sounds like a lot. I presume there was more than that in there after you siphoned down the brine, so the softener took extra time to suck the brine down.
Sounds good, if I am reading things right.
DownTheWell
New Member
Works. Used up the hot water and now the water is soft. Whoo Hoo!. How nice is that. Thank you very much.
DownTheWell
New Member
I have a couple more questions.
1 - I would like to regenrate both tanks completely, the full 96,000 grains each, can you tell me what settings would do that, then I would manually regenerate both tanks and start over fresh with the current settings that have beem suggested.
2 - Does the (BF = 12) setting define the amount of salt used as 6 lbs./gallon? Would changing it BF=19 change my salt to 8 lbs./gallon?
I have people coming over tomorrow. I'm wishing I could get the water completely soft but, that would probably be a lot of water between no and then.
I'm guessing because I did this wrong to start with, using up the 96,000 grains in both tanks and then having set it the way it is now, that there really is not a safety factor at this point, that what I'm really doing is repeating the original error except I'm limiting it to the 60,000.
As Bannerman said in post #33, "12 minutes X 0.5 BLFC = 6 gallons. Each gallon will dissolve 3 lbs of salt so there now would be brine containing 18 lbs of salt."
To regenerate 3 cubic ft from scratch, you need a total of 15*3/3 =15 gallons total. Your last brine fill put in 6 gallons. Thus you would need to add 9 more gallons to do what you like. You can pour that into your brine tank directly without changing your programming. Wait 3 or more hours. Your next regen will use 15 gallons of water plus salt.
As you pour the water, make sure the water level does not rise so high that it will leak out of the place that the brine hose comes in.
After your regen including brine refill, add 9 more gallons again. Wait 3 or more hours before triggering the next regen, or just let it happen when it happens.
I think you meant to say 8 lbs/cubic ft of resin.
19 minutes *0.5*3/3=9.5 pounds per cubic ft of resin.
For 8, you can use BF=16, and in that case, you could use C=72.0.
If you think you are not getting soft-enough water, increase the H number or change RC to 100 from zero.
DownTheWell
New Member
So I can add 9 gallons of water to the brine tank, wait 3 hours or so for it to dissolve salt and then run a regeneration cycle.
Repeat for the second tank.
I wrote all this, this morning and was trying to read about the efficiency, and read something about setting it for 6 versus 8, thought at the time that mine was set for 6 and figured I would get softer water via less ideal efficiency but I can't remember what I was comprehending at the time.
I think I will change the BF=12 to 16.
At one point, I will sit down and make an effort to write all this out as an equation that I can understand, so as to stop bothering you all.
But, does it make sense what I'm saying? That my water is still slightly hard because I think the tanks went through the first times, using up all 96,000 grains in each tank and then now with the settings for 60,0000 that my regenerations are not really working since I never did reset the whole thing, putting the overall capacity back to 96,000?
Yes. That will do what you asked for.
Why? Is the water not soft enough shortly after a regen happens? Is the water not soft enough when it is almost time to do a regen?
Are you measuring the softness of the softened water, or are you using some other method of gauging softness.
How often does your system regenerate?
DownTheWell
New Member
I'm gauging the softness via my dishwasher and via my hair in in the shower. Originally I felt that "greasy" feeling on my skin and I don't now. Iam also aware of stiffness of my hair in the same measure. Not anything like when I had pretty much 85 grain hardness to wash with but, off the top o my head I would guess it's between 10-20 now. I will check it with my hach test.
also, having put the extra 9 gallons into the brine tank, it put the float about 4-5" below the water level. So, I'm thinking that for this process, for this regen, I will just weigh it down for the duration rather than cut the tube arm it's on shorter.
Similar threads
