I no longer use that membrane

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by johnfrwhipple, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD for both Canada & the US

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    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2016
  2. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD for both Canada & the US

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    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
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    Sponsor Paid Advertisement

     
  4. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD for both Canada & the US

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    [​IMG] b


    What is this picture trying to prove? That a pro surfer can stand up on some foam? Look at the foam. Between the white layer and the orange layer is pressed paper of sorts. This wicks water. This once wet looses it's strength.

    Advertising. Advertising Advertising.

    Images like this and sales tactics like this make me sick.

    And people wonder why I quit using it....
    y Jo

    hn Whipple
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
  5. s blyth

    s blyth New Member

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    Kerdi for steam shower

    John is Kerdi ok to use in a Steam shower??????
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2013
  6. s blyth

    s blyth New Member

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    kerdi for steam shower

    John is kerdi ok to use in a Steam shower ????
     
  7. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    This is a very good advice John . :)
     
  8. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    But you are John . You are a Pro in this , maybe they leave it to the Pros to figure them out . Schluter makes reference to pipes flanges in their literature , but the use is of a more general one . For steaming purposes , the warranty is the responsibility of the installer . It looks like you find the right way .

    My concern would be if the Kerdi fix is approved -- in the long term exposure -- for the connection point with the outlet . Temperature wise .
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
  9. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    The 100 degree mark is pretty close to vapors so in the long run you may be at the limit .

    Using something similar to this

    Red high Temp RTV.jpg

    may do the trick . Since you are imbedding the fleece from the Kerdi DS , leaving it unsealed at edges , The Red high temp RTV will definitely cure properly . I don't see how it can affect the tile and the grout since it is behind the Kerdi DS . The Loctite RHT RTV is stable in the long term venture .

    As long as temperatures seen by the High temperature RTV are not above 150 degrees -- is this one of the reasons it is hard to spec a safe product for the application at hand? --, it is safe to use it .

    Read the material safety data sheet http://www.myhenkel.asia/documents/msds-tds/AU/MSDS/en/Loctite_596_Superflex_Red_High_Temperature_RTV_Sealant.pdf at page 4


    It looks like this product '' Permatex® Ultra Copper® Maximum Temperature RTV Silicone Gasket Maker '' has the dangerous point at 300 degrees . I would say this product have a better chance in your application . Do a test of bonding 2 pieces of Kerdi DS together , we may be lucky . I don't see why it wouldn't work , since the fleece should give up before the RTV looses bond from it .

    http://www.permatex.com/products-2/product-categories/gasketing/gasket-makers/permatex-ultra-copper-maximum-temperature-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker-detail is the link for it . Also read the MDS under Available sizes on the same web page .
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
  10. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    I was simply addressing the specific connection location only , where the steam nozzle is meeting with the Kerdi DS .

    The rest of the shower , except the specific area is no issue .

    I guess after five years of doing -- you -- steam rooms it is a good sign that you have the good product . But then , like I here many times from others , if it worked at my place than it is good . You were looking for a specific recommendation from the manufacturer for the specific connection , didn't expect you to give up so easily . LOL
     
  11. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    I am sure with my french speaking I will convinced them to give me whatever I want :rolleyes:

    I think you are looking in the wrong direction John . Oh , by the way , have the linear drain shipped with the ACO strainer :D , it is pretty easy to answer to your concerns .

    The specifier(s) makes the assembly and the proper procedures to follow . Since you are the specifier for all your clients with theirs steam shower project , you are suppose to specify , have and cover all the aspects of the layout , insure all of the products to be installed -- from A to Z -- following the technical guidelines . I am quite surprised you don't have the '' proper '' procedure for , quote " steam outlets rough in to the Kerdi DS or NobleSeal TS membrane '' .

    But I thought I already did give you the answer . :)
     
  12. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    No words twisting on my part John .

    TCNA 2012 Handbook --- SR614-12 --- gives you some of the specific wording .

    If you are playing in the big leagues , most of the time wording like this ones are seen on the plans to be followed .

    Important plans Notes 001.jpg

    Nothing new with the wording John .


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    If you are the specifyer , for the whole assembly of the steam room or the steam shower , using their membrane -- Kerdi DS -- , it should be just normal to get the answer for your technical issue '' steam outlets rough vs. the Kerdi DS '' .........You may have already the answer for residential steam shower .....use the Kerdi fix , but if you need it for different applications -- commercial set ups -- they should give it to you . However , just inquiring it , for the '' fun of it '' is probably not a good idea .


    So , when I am going to receive the drain ? :p

    If you would send me the drain , just to be clear on it , it will be donated to someone in need for it . Proof of work in progress , locally ,requiring the specific drain will be needed . :)
     
  13. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Don't worry , I am not interested in the free drain . I am sure you can get those answers on your own , limitations with what you do with them is always a good idea . Just saying ....... not much from YPOV , but sufficient for many of us .


    No it doesn't . But I didn't put them there for specifics issues or situations . Seems like you are discussing few different things , but at the end you are only interested in Kerdi fix or Noble Sealant 150 and your situation .

    Call the mfg and require politely clarifications . If you don't get any , change your products for steam shower installation or .....continue to use the Kerdi fix .
     
  14. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Like I said . You look at it in the wrong direction .

    http://www.noblecompany.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=qmdwFYNeXZ8%3D&tabid=66&mid=445

    Answer : First page , 2.Materials , 2.3Waterproof sealant states :

    Quote : " 2.3 WATERPROOF SEALANT:
    Use NobleSealant 150 to seam sheets, seal penetrations (i.e., pipes, wire), drains, and terminal edges. "

    Is that enough for you ?
     
  15. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Nice looking lit niche John .
     
  16. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    The drain is not worth that much . I should've have 3 linear drains already sent for .........:D
     
  17. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    So , you are always checking them and make sure the showers or the steam showers don't leak , right ? Someone -- let's call them pros for now -- can not rely on their experience of redoing same operations , same materials , same techniques over and over without proper flooding of the showers . Even if they do , the specific requirement from codes for flooding are not even close to be enough . It needs 3 days or 72 hours .

    Flood testing is a must ,not only in North America but world wide , right ?
     
  18. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Open - maybe we should vote for it .


    Direct quote from

    http://www.schluter.com/7360.aspx


    '' The Schluter®-Shower System is a bonded waterproofing system for tiled showers, steam showers, and bathtub surrounds. It is an integrated family of products that creates a sealed system to eliminate leaks and reduce the potential for efflorescence and mold growth. Schluter®-KERDI-SEAL-PS and -MV complement the Schluter®-Shower System by providing reliable solutions to address typical protrusions through the KERDI membrane, such as showerheads, tub spouts, steam inlets, and mixing valves. ''


    '' Schluter®-KERDI-SEAL-PS and -MV eliminate the use of sealant at specified protrusions for clean and simple application. ''
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    I say I did enough;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  19. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

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    I agree, those look fantastic, John. I'm sure the light is much more uniform in person. Cameras tend to show hotspots with LED lighting.

    What kind of controllers do you use? There's a lot of cool stuff coming out that is either Bluetooth, or WiFi enabled. I use line voltage switching for basic on/off, and app based color controllers. The color/scene is changed with a wall keypad, or my phone.

    Commercial controllers use a DMX network, but you can find high quality, standalone DMX controllers, which can be added to a larger system.
     
  20. loudgonzo

    loudgonzo New Member

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    We will be putting up the walls and getting ready for the actual build this coming up weekend. Right now we have the alcove opened up to the studs, and from the picture, you can see the 2x6 studs are not spaced evenly, so I will add 3 studs to the wider spaces to close the gap, helping to even the wall load. I will cut the drain vent and feed through new stud and then reattach. (don't mind the mess, its been cleaned up and drain is now centered)

    Now for the choice of wall material. I'm leaning towards hardi and will do small sections at a time to make it easier to hang kerdi before drying out. I am also planning on using Versabond thinset (i've read this is easy to work with) to attach the tiles to the kerdi, the plan is to give the tiles a few weeks to set before grouting, thereby allowing the fillers to evaporate.

    Can I use versabond as well to attach the kerdi to the hardibacker, or should I use the non-modified? Could I stick with the versabond and give it time to rest (same as what i plan to do with the tile?)

    A question on the 8+9, do you use the 8+9 to attach the kerdi band to the seams, and then also paint the 8+9 over the seam? OR, do you use thinset to apply the kerdiband, and then use the ardex over the seam only?

    John, on the other thread, you said not so good that the curb have a overhang, why not? what makes this not ideal?

    thanks,
    leo photo (27).jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
  21. loudgonzo

    loudgonzo New Member

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    John,

    what are your thoughts on my approach above? Also, we'll be getting our tile soon, and are wanting the solid curb top, but you said not ideal?

    thanks,
    leo
     
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