JohnfrWhipple
BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD
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Nothing is more important in a bathroom renovation than the flood test. I have read some really stupid advice online about how to properly flood test a Kerdi Shower - much of this coming from the John Bridge Forum where I have heard of everything from using a ballon *, a tennis ball to using a chaulking tube. Insane these methods. Flood testing is best done with an inflatable test plug or a twist-n-set plug like you see in the photo below.
The reason for this is because it not only tests the connection of the Kerdi to the drain but also from the drain to the vertical length of pipe above the P-Trap. If anyone tells you different. They are wrong.
This business of building showers is complex - there are many steps to take. The flood test is not the responsibility of the tile installer but it should be when it is he or she doing the work. The tile body's which over see the tile business list the resposnibility for this test as "Others" - who the hell are the others. Make sure you include a flood test in your scope of work. This will net you a better shower and one that you know that works as designed.
Flood tests are best preformed for a period of 72 hours. Not 10 minutes. Not overnight - 72 hours. The least I would leave one is 24 or 48 hours. Shoot for three days.
This shower is a curbless shower in Coquitlam. Kerdi is not allowed to be used with a clamping drain so you will notice the NobleDeck membrane in the divot section of my shower prep. The shower turned out great and we used the drain from a botched Proline - Kerdi Steam Shower we repaired for a client to build my buddy a Kick Ass Shower. Here is a peak at the end result.
Kerdi DS Curbless Shower
* Ballon Recommendation from John Bridge member "Lazarus"
Texas Tile Contractor
- http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1148053&postcount=2 This John Bridge member has over 5,000 post online and writes "Don't think I ever water tested a Kerdi pan. I trust it and, never a problem...but the inspector may require it. A balloon works just fine for this..."
Well - a ballon does not work just fine since it does not check the connection of the drain to the shower's waste line.
Another member on the John Bridge Forum with 30,000+ posts writes this "....Get a plumber's test plug or even a party balloon to seal the drain. Some one here used a tennis ball stuffed into a rubber glove for a plug. You need something that can maintain a seal around the inside of the drain pipe. That red tape isn't up to the task." - Poster BBCamp - Source
So the info started out well and then failed. Who writes 30,000 post and does not know that a tennis ball is not allowed?
Here is an inflatable test plug and a Kerdi Drain. These types of drains can be found at any plumbing wholesaler. I use either my compressor or my kids bike pump to inflate them. Many times other types of drains my require an extension hose for the inflation part. It's a good idea to dry-fit and test these plugs prior to the actually flood test. Yesterday we set the plug and then added in about four cups of water. We marked the water level on the shower pan with tile spacers and then four or five hours later set the proper flood test - after we knew we had a proper seal with the test plug.
Below is another example of a flood test. This shower prepared with NobleSeal TS. Any shower regardless of the type of waterproofing needs to be flood tested. If you skip this step you basically give the builder of your shower a green light to kind of do a good job.
When waterproofing your shower you get need to get it right. "When it's perfect - It's good Enough" - John Whipple
John is Kerdi ok to use in a Steam shower??????
on my projects I use Kerdi Fix and a Compression Flashing I make onsite.
Above I have set the flashing into some Kerdi Fix and am setting the Kerdi DS flat with my 3" taping knife. I'll do a pull check and then back fill some Ardex 8+9 on the edges and finish setting this flashing with that product.
That's the real question. I have found marine grade silicone with high heat ratings but are they safe with tile and grout? Regular silicone is rated to over 200 Celsius, I would think Kerdi Fix can take the heat. The data sheet on Kerdi fix posts it at 100 degrees max or short thirty minute burst to 180 degrees. The ThermaSol steam head is solid brass and quite large. I imagine it will help dispurse the heat.
I've always wanted to check this out. Make a box out of Kerdi and Kerdi fix and then steam the shit out of it. See if the Kerdi Fix holds. The ThermaSol fitting has an O ring that further seals the trim from the rough in. Pretty bullet proof and if all goes to shit there is still the compression factor of the custom job site cut flashing.
johnfrwhipple said:Roberto I'm of the mind set that Schluter would have placed a warning label on the spec sheet if they did not think Kerdi Fix was OK for steam showers. One day I'll check this out but until then I'll keep using the Kerdi Fix. Five years later - no issues.
Roberto I tried and tried to get this info from anybody. My emails to Schluter and Noble left unanswered. Try yourself to get a recommendation from anyone.
Call Mapei.
Call Ardex.
Call Schluter.
Call Noble Company.
I will send you a free drain if you can produce an email from any one of these manufactures on the proper sealant for the steam fitting connection. Double dare you.
Now perhaps it's my visibility online that I do not get an email. Maybe they will send it to you - but not me.
When you look at Noble and Schluter Companies in particular I find it _____ing insane that not one of these giant players in the vapour proofing industry has a spec sheet detail.... Insane I tell you - Insane. But I guess every company likes to leave a little loop hole.
I bet we could ask Dave Gobis - but that would cost us thousands for the answer I'm sure. I'm sure he has testified against failed steam showers in the past.
We could ask that retired hack John Bridge - but he will say something like "A Little Birdie told me....."
I got a free linear or square drain on it Roberto with your name on it.
I want to know how to seal the ThermaSol steam outlets rough in to the Kerdi DS or NobleSeal TS membrane. Something in writing from either company.
Lets see what you can do. Maybe you can woo them with your accent! lol
JW said:Your wording is general info that is included in the TTMAC and TCNA specifications - it does not address specific products like Kerdi Fix or Noble Sealant 150.
johnfrwhipple said:I only include Noble Company And Kerdi because they are the only two companies that can meet the High Use Shower Specification fro steam showers....
Noble Seal TS and Kerdi DS - only two options in my opinion to build a steam shower.
johnfrwhipple said:Here is a look at latest two Kerdi LED Shower Light Niches. Both are top lit designs.
johnfrwhipple said:Keep trying...
johnfrwhipple said:It's nice to see Schluter's Social Media Efforts show casing flood test. Yesterday while viewing Schluter's Face Book page they featured a barrier free shower flood test. Now if we could only get the men with the common brain to do a better job flood testing there work - I would be happy. If your tile man skips a flood test - he is breaking the building code of 98% of North America. If he does he or she is a tile hack. Flood test every shower - Every time. Three days is best.
johnfrwhipple said:Close - Keep trying...
I learned a new lesson yesterday.
Never bring in your heat sink from outside and install without first warming it up when the temperature is below 10 degrees Celsius.
The reason is the metal is cold and once warm it will sweat. This moisture does not allow a good bond with the peel and stick strip on the LED lights.
I had my heat gun with me so I could warm up the heat sink and then re-installed the LED lights. But lesson learned and not checking this could lead to the LED's lights falling off your heat sink.... Not a good idea with w Kerdi LED Shower Niche Design.
Here is a look at latest two Kerdi LED Shower Light Niches. Both are top lit designs. The diffusers are still not in position when I took this photo.
Kerdi LED Shower Light Niches: Photo Source - Page
This is awkward, but...
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