Hydrant stopped working after upgrades to piping

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HYDRANTFIX

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Hydrant is next to Well Pump, stopped working after we upgraded our Piping in Wellhouse.

We have recently installed a new Check Valve, Shut Off Valve and Sediment Filter in Wellhouse and then Frost-free Hydrant stopped giving water. However, the rest of water system flows through Pressure Tank to Main House just fine. Likewise, if we turn on the House Garden Bib and then crank open the Hydrant then the Hydrant will give water. My guess is the new piping configuration in the Wellhouse is wrong. We are guessing that the Hydrant is connected right to the Well Pump and then there is another water line going to the Wellhouse system.

Also have replaced the Manifold with all new Pressure Gauge, Pressure Relief Valve and Faucet. The Pressure Switch is only about 2 years old and that along with the Pressure Tank are doing there jobs fine. The problem occured prior to swapping out the Pressure Tank (so the tank is not the problem), it happened before the tank swapout just after the new configuration of Piping in Wellhouse.

The only other changes that we did FIRST was to replace our CPVC in the Main House with PEX and install 2 frost-free garden bibs at each end with 2 Shut-off Valves also at the Main House. But nearly positive Hydrant was working after that phase was done. It only stopped after the new configuration in Wellhouse.

We need someone who has EXPERIENCE with Hydrant Systems to reply to this, please.
 

Gary Slusser

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Your description is somewhat vague as to the order of things...

If the hydrant is between the pump/well and the pressure tank with the check valve on the hydrant and pump side of the pressure tank, the hydrant only gets water when the pump is running. The check valve prevents water flow out of the tank back to the hydrant.

If not give a detailed description from the well to past the pressure tank.
 

HYDRANTFIX

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Hydrant next to pump Original Config

Lived here 10 years. Well is 190 ft deep with steel casing goes into basalt. I am doing this from memory...Hydrant is outside to the left of pump, buried about 3 ft deep with gravel at weep hole and connected to pump. Then piping travels about 10 ft south into heated wellhouse. Original config: Electrical boxes in wellhouse to control pump...Pipe enters wall, into manifold with faucet w/ short hose attached, manifold has pressure relief valve, then pressure gauge then pressure switch, then to pressure tank, then line goes out to main house about 75 ft away to a shut off valve with stem to regular garden faucet and the other main is bathrm sink, toilet, shower/tub, washer, hot water tank (all electric), then kitchen sink.

System was installed 1997. Except gauge & pressure switch only 2 years old. Pressure tank was bladder style Sears Captivair 390 set for 40/60. Figured this bladder probably broke so we set about to replace it with upgrade (still working but probably stressing the pump for days this spring. We are in the 2nd Aquafir, always plenty of pressure 50 gpm at hydrant. But pump was still functioning, bladder tank was leaking rusty colored fluid at Schrader valve, neighborhood has had high mineral (iron) content in wells around here. Horse water bucket tank (100 gal) gets buildup of red slime after a couple weeks. Water checks out "safe" with county test, however. But we'll be sending it out to another detailed agency. Hydrant was working fine up until new config.

Neighbor suggested that we be sure to control backflow &/or siphoning contamination and consider sediment filtration & softner/RO when upgrading our system. This is why we heard that perhaps a check valve would be in order, then someone suggested a shut-off valve in wellhouse so as to not have to climb under main house in an emergency as crawlspace could be blocked by snow. So the Contractor we hired had plumbing listed as his specialty, was Lic, Bond, Insured with no ill remarks at L&I or BBB said he knew how to do it. So the next post will tell of his NEW Configuration.
 

HYDRANTFIX

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.....Neighbor suggested that we be sure to control backflow &/or siphoning contamination and consider sediment filtration & softner/RO when upgrading our system. This is why we heard that perhaps a check valve would be in order, then someone suggested a shut-off valve in wellhouse so as to not have to climb under main house in an emergency as crawlspace could be blocked by snow. So Contractor we hired had plumbing listed as his specialty, was Lic, Bond, Insured with no ill remarks at L&I or BBB said he knew how to do it. So the next post will tell of his NEW MAIN HOUSE Configuration....:

First we had Contractor/plumber work on Main House, removing CPVC hot/cold replacing w/PEX piping, home is 50 ft long, stick-built but small like a dblwide trailer. All fixtures around 30 ft in basically a strait row except washer. Starting from the northside at Pressure tank, water lines travel underground 75 ft to house, then under crawlspace is shut-off valve, stems off to garden bib (he replaced w/frost-free bib), other stems to bathrm sink, toilet, shower/tub, hot water tank, washer (new faucets w/inset mounted flush), new black wastewater drain for laundry, ADDED hot/cold stems for Utility Sink (capped off til item is delivered),then kitchen sink (no disposal or dishwasher).

We requested he install frost-free garden bib on south end of house 20 ft away from kitchen sink & wanted hot water PEX line to end inside crawlspace for future expansion if we remodel to add an "L" to our box of a house. So Builders have Pex ready to go at wall. He forgot, so had to T-off of kitchen sink to extend it. Plus he decided to ADD a shut-off valve there also.

This new PEX system worked fine out of the gate, nothing yet was replaced in the wellhouse (still wornout 1997 pressure tank). Garden bibs & fixtures all worked well, Hydrant still working fine. So next POST will tell of New Configuration of Wellhouse when Hydrant stopped working.
 

HYDRANTFIX

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Now to the NEW Wellhouse Configuration

......This new PEX system worked fine out of the gate, nothing yet was replaced in the wellhouse (still wornout 1997 pressure tank). Garden bibs & fixtures all worked well, Hydrant still working fine. Only other thing I forgot was he drained the hot water tank, then refilled it..... So THIS POST will tell of New Configuration of Wellhouse when Hydrant stopped working.....: :eek:

I can vaguely remember (I will have to call hubby to confirm) the New order seems it goes: Starting from Northside, Existing Pump to Hydrant, the line is 3ft underground to Wellhouse wall, NEW is up from ground about 6" inches, ADDED shut-off valve, check valve, Home Depot Sediment Filteration ($60), existing manifold (see above post) w/faucet, short hose, pressure relief valve, then existing gauge & pressure switch both only 2 yrs old. Then (still wornout 1997 pressure tank). Cranked it up, pressure still showing 40/60, all PEX fixtures & garden bibs working. EXCEPT now RED Frost-free Hydrant has no water coming out to supply livestock. Plumber went home to think about it.

We watered the plants with new main house garden bibs, then I happened to try HYDRANT out of habit, flipped it open while garden bib was on & HYDRANT came on. BUT I did not think this was correct, as we want our HYDRANT to be able to function on its own, aside from the main house, in case we travel away as snowbirds and blow out lines & button up the Main house in winter and have caretaker come by to water livestock from HYDRANT. Don't think those $20 frost-free garden bibs are actually FREEZELESS...something wrong here! Hydrant still would not come on without a garden bib being open.

Contractor arrived next morning, swapped out worn Pressure Tank with Replacement, pressurization 40/60, PEX fixtures & Garden bibs all working, but Hydrant NOT. (except with G. Bib open) He thought problem with Check Valve so rerouted it just b4 Pressure Tank...didn't work, so he then swapped out Manifold for a NEW one, with NEW Pressure Gauge, Pressure Relief Valve & Faucet. Still no fix, so he put Check Valve back to prior placement. Still not working. Then he has gall to say that we will just have to water our livestock from INSIDE the Wellhouse (5x8) cramped space, with regular faucet (he'd swap it for a frost-free hose bib), yet it was about 3 inches off the ground!

I protested that he needed to restore our HYDRANT and make us whole again! Explaining that we would have to finagle the 12ft long hose to drain it all winter long to prevent siphoning, freezeups, and even with w/ wall heater the pipes might freeze as we watered 100 gal stock tank almost daily. A nightmare! Plus I always thought that the little faucet w/hose was there as a way to drain Pressure Tank or some other emergency purpose, not for real daily usage. I got this eery feeling that we hired the wrong guy!

Later the Building Inspector saw that he had also taken shortcuts in the Main House by leaving CPVC at all the fixtures anywhere from 2" to up to a foot or so, instead of replacing as we requested! He almost left the Washer lines w/ 2ft of that 14 year old CPVC...He left 4" of CPVC elbows at the Shower Mixer...NOW LEAKING AGAIN...this was the old troublespot I had pointed out to Contractor that we had a split in the CPVC during a cold snap the winter of 2006...I wanted ALL CPVC out of this PEX System!!! So yesterday he came back to redo the fixtures. With the idea that to get our HYDRANT back to normal we'll have to dig up yard and tie-in to Pressure Tank System...HELP!!!!! I am afraid to let him touch our Well/Hydrant System anymore!:eek:
 

HYDRANTFIX

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Do Hydrants already have Check Valves?

If we do away with Check Valve and/or Shut-off Valve in Wellhouse would this solve our problem? Was our Hydrant sanitary without them (backflow)?

Other than the NEW Sediment Filteration, the only real NEW additions were the C.V. and the S.V. in the Wellhouse. In the Main House instead of a standard garden bib, we have frost-free (non-siphoning?) now 2 of them and an additional shut-off valve on south end.
 

Speedbump

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Get rid of the Check Valve and the Hydrant should start working again. I think your neighbor should stay with his own problems and not be causing you more of your own.

bob...
 

HYDRANTFIX

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Reply back to: Gary Slusser Senior Member...Gary, you said you didn't want vague so I spelled it out. Not even concerned with the PEX as it is all insulated, etc. This question is not about the PEX....This question was to why does my Red frost-free HYDRANT no longer work after changes have been made to wellhouse piping config, after adding Check Valve, Shut-off valve and Filter?

We need that Hydrant in winter and now it only works if we turn on a garden bib first at the house (which will not be feasible in snowy winter). We only want to have to turn the Hydrant crank at the barn, like we did for 10 years.
 
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Valveman

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As was said earlier, remove the check valve before the pressure tank. Water cannot flow back from the pressure tank to the hydrant if there is a check valve in that line. Also make sure you sediment filter is after the pressure tank, or the sediment will also flow back to the hydrant.
 

Gary Slusser

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Reply back to: Gary Slusser Senior Member...Gary, you said you didn't want vague so I spelled it out.
I said: If the hydrant is between the pump/well and the pressure tank with the check valve on the hydrant and pump side of the pressure tank, the hydrant only gets water when the pump is running. The check valve prevents water flow out of the tank back to the hydrant.

If not give a detailed description from the well to past the pressure tank.

That "detailed description" didn't mean an explanation of everything that was done and by whom when and why..., just the order of things from the well to the pressure tank.

This question was to why does my Red frost-free HYDRANT no longer work after changes have been made to wellhouse piping config, after adding Check Valve, Shut-off valve and Filter?
And I answered that in the first reply you received...

The hydrant does not get any water with the pump off.

That is because the check valve is preventing water flow backwards from the pressure tank to the hydrant when the pump is not running.

Remove the check valve and the hydrant will flow water when the pump is off or on.
 
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