How's my plumber doing?

[Terry]

I'm getting dizzy looking at it.
If that's what other plumbing shops are doing, I should be raising my prices.

And the tub was there before he started installing the valve?
Was he texting on his cell phone the entire time?
Was it just too much trouble to "think" about what he was doing?

 

[Augusta]

Hey Terry, thanks for responding. So looking inside the wall (bathroom 'B'), there's no reason to not be able to go to the right about 5 inches, is there? Is there some minimum distance between those males and the 90's? Because on the right, he's got like 3 inches until he hits the stud, but then he could easily shorten the distance coming out of those males (horizontally) to make up for the other 2 or 3 inches needed to align with the drain.

They took both tubs completely out to level them, because the first guy used spare pieces of sheet rock to shim the tub level. Yes, sheet rock - like that was going to hold it for long. So I don't understand why there are alignment issues. I don't even get why in bathroom 'A', the trim pieces are TOUCHING. If I were a plumber, I'd simply ask the customer - WHERE DO YOU PREFER THE TUB SPOUT AND WHERE DO YOU PREFER THE WATER VALVE TO BE (vertical height)? Do plumbers assume some distance? And are there any plumbers on this planet who actually leave no distance between trim when there's no good reason to even do that?

As a general rule, I'd advise center of tub spout at 17" from bottom of tub and center of valve 28" from bottom of tub. I'd also consider the size of the trim long before I even attempted to position the valve in the wall.

Any way I can get some plumbers from up North to move to the South? Geesh.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Redwood]

Unbelievable!
I'm surprised the guy got the overflow plate centered on the tub drain...
Oh wait the holes were already put there by the tub manufacturer...

Was this another plumber hired by the contractor?

 

[Augusta]

Questions

Questions:

1. So looking inside the wall (bathroom 'B'), there's no reason to not be able to go to the right about 5 inches, is there? Is there some minimum distance between those males and the 90's? Because on the right, he's got like 3 inches until he hits the stud, but then he could easily shorten the distance coming out of those males (horizontally) to make up for the other 2 or 3 inches needed to align with the drain.

2. I don't even get why in bathroom 'A', the trim pieces are TOUCHING. If I were a plumber, I'd simply ask the customer - WHERE DO YOU PREFER THE TUB SPOUT AND WHERE DO YOU PREFER THE WATER VALVE TO BE (vertical height)? Do plumbers assume some distance?

3. And are there any plumbers on this planet who actually leave no distance between trim when there's no good reason to even do that?

 

[Jimbo]

A Yugo also met minimum standards,

I hope the contractor who fell off the ladder has workers comp, or the hospital will come after YOUR insurance.

 

[hj]

WHEN were the holes drilled in the surround. If they were already there when the second plumber installed the valve, he HAD to put the valve where they were. If HE drilled the holes, then he really needs to check his ruler because there is NO reason to install the valves "off center" unless he is trying to align with some preexisting condition. And he might be a "hack" plumber just like the first one. He must have gotten lucky in the upper photo and just barely got the spout not to hit the faucet's trim plate. I also do NOT see anything securing the valves, unless it was added after the pictures. I moved from the North to the Southwest, and the union tried its best to send me back.

 

[Augusta]

Is there some minimum distance between those horizontal males and the 90's in the bathroom 'B' picture? Is there some procedure to follow for cutting into the studs if more horizontal room is needed? Thanks.

 

[Terry]

The pipes going into the valve could have been street 90 els, or pipe that is ten feet long or more. It's under pressure and will find a way through.
And yes, you can drill studs if needed. And like hj mentioned, I don't see any backing supporting the valve.

 

[3m]

I would be looking for empty beer cans stuffed in the wall or heat register, because this guy was either drunk, stoned or blind. After seeing these pictures Im going to raise my prices for the high quality of work that i do

 

[Ian Gills]

I'm never hiring a contractor ever again.

DIY all the way baby.

 

[Shacko]

augusta:

>>>I'd simply ask the customer - WHERE DO YOU PREFER THE TUB SPOUT AND WHERE DO YOU PREFER THE WATER VALVE TO BE (vertical height)? Do plumbers assume some distance? And are there any plumbers on this planet who actually leave no distance between trim when there's no good reason to even do that? <<<

A plumber sholdn't be ASSUMING anything, without input from the owners you put the valve in according to the DIRECTIONS that come with them!!

A perfect example of the BREEDING POLICE not doing their job!

 

[Augusta]

augusta:

>>>I'd simply ask the customer - WHERE DO YOU PREFER THE TUB SPOUT AND WHERE DO YOU PREFER THE WATER VALVE TO BE (vertical height)? Do plumbers assume some distance? And are there any plumbers on this planet who actually leave no distance between trim when there's no good reason to even do that? <<<

A plumber sholdn't be ASSUMING anything, without input from the owners you put the valve in according to the DIRECTIONS that come with them!!

A perfect example of the BREEDING POLICE not doing their job!

You would think they wouldn't assume. I have yet to deal with one who actually asks questions. When I had my new home built (not the house in this thread), I had jets for 2 walls in the master shower. Do you think the plumbing company asked me one single question of spacing between jets? I mean, he knew there were a total of 4 jets; 2 on the valve wall and 2 on the opposite wall, but he never asked me at what vertical height I wanted them. On the valve wall one of the jets' trim was touching the valve trim, and looked like it was even bent a little in trying to force it to fit (because they didn't take into consideration the distance for the trim before they started sweating pipes). The bottom jet was positioned where it would hit me in the crotch every time I cut it on - and that thing hurt buddy. So I never used it. It looked really cool in the magazine though.

I left a note in the home (it's vacant) for the guys to see. It said I wanted them to redo the tub in the master bath, with the brand new inserts I had to go buy a second time (which I plan on deducting from the bill). Of course they'd have to rip out the wall they just finished in order to redo it, this time getting things lined up IN THE CENTER. I thought common sense would dictate this much. I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I give them all the details they think I'm bossy, controlling, and telling them how to do their job. If I don't give them the details, they screw everything up every single time. Then they'll make a bunch of lame excuses as to why things ended up the way they did. They read the note with the sketch of how it should look (like a normal shower), set the note down in the shower and left (this was Saturday morning). I haven't heard from them since.

With the time and money I've got in this, I could have flown one of you guys to Augusta to take care of it.

 

[hj]

That video is a PERFECT DIY training film. I have NEVER found a handyman, farmer, or DIYer, who did not think he had more than enough knowledge, (and more than any contractor), to do his project. You seem to fit into that mold.

 

[Augusta]

Got a hold of the plumber today. He said that he doesn't know what happened to the alignment. Said it must have shifted in the wall (even though he cut the holes in the insert OFF CENTER...which has nothing to do with shifting in the wall. Even if the valve in the wall had not shifted, it would have to shift to align with the off center holes in the insert, resulting in an OFF CENTER head/valve/tub spout.) Then he said he wanted to get paid for the one bathroom that I said would barely pass (the one with the trim touching..I said I could live with it, but I'm not happy about it.) Then he said that if I paid him half of the agreed upon amount, he may be able to persuade his partner and the third guy (helper) to come back out to finish the other bath (I guess they feel this is some sort of favor).

I told him about the manufacturer specs, and if he had followed them, he wouldn't have trim touching. He replied that he measured the fixtures at his house, and then at a friend's house, and he came up with the same measurement as what he did in the bathroom with the trim touching. I kept repeating READ THE DIRECTIONS, even bringing a direction book into the bathroom while he was working prior to the screw up. Back when I did that he said, "we're not done. Can you wait until we're done to comment? Just chill." Ok. I chilled. By the way, this plumber works full time for the County.

When I first began with the second group of guys, I agreed to pay $2,000 labor total for both baths, now that the demolition was done and hauled off (I paid for the materials which were about $3,000) but I told him it was only fair that he picked up the cost of the 2nd insert since he cut the holes off center (it was about $240). If I pay them $1000 labor for the one bath less $240 for the screwed up insert, then they are looking at $760 for several days of work. What do you guys think? What's fair considering the finished pictures above?

 

[Ian Gills]

That video is a PERFECT DIY training film. I have NEVER found a handyman, farmer, or DIYer, who did not think he had more than enough knowledge, (and more than any contractor), to do his project. You seem to fit into that mold.

Objection. I know my limits. I wouldn't attempt to replace a furnace or an air conditioner, for example. Or even think of doing an electrical service upgrade without hiring a local, licensed, trusted professional.

But I would solder a section of pipe myself and take the time to cut it exactly to length and level it with a spirit level, which you probably would not have time to do. I'd also fit my own faucet, or replace an angle stop, and, not having to rely on just what your supply house stocks, could source these from reputable companies that still produce in the US or Canada, for example.

The OP's example is a case in point.

Not having your time and cost constraints for simple work gives DIYers infinite advantages over hiring a pro. Period.

And if it's a hobby, then hiring a pro for these types of work is just unthinkable.

Pros should stick to pro work. Not household maintenance.

 

[Augusta]

Need some help deciding what's fair.

When I first began with the second group of guys, I agreed to pay $2,000 labor total for both baths, now that the demolition was done and hauled off (I paid for the materials which were about $3,000) but I told him it was only fair that he picked up the cost of the 2nd insert since he cut the holes off center (it was about $240). If I pay them $1000 labor for the one bath less $240 for the screwed up insert, then they are looking at $760 for several days of work (they actually put in a wall to the far left of each bath to make up for the shorter space that the inserts would not cover. I still hauled off all drywall/scraps/etc). What do you guys think? What's fair considering the finished pictures above?

 

[Ballvalve]

Anyone that works full time for a county has a heritage or culture of NON RESPONSIBILITY. Working for the county typically means you are accustomed to doing poor work without any oversight. Good luck with the county stooges!

Also, you ADDED 500$ to their bill as I recall you wrote.... Interesting idea in hindsight, no?

What the hell was that about? Money for more vodka?

And about what's fair? How about massaging them with a ball pein hammer?

Who gives a S#&*&% how long they took to perform their stupidity.

And charge them $750 for clean up and stress.

 

[Terry]

It would be hard to comment on pricing for two reasons.

We have no idea of the scope of work being done.

The wages there may be different.

I will say that it's not uncommon for a complete bath remodel to hit $10,000
And you had two of them done?

Material is the smaller part of the job.
When I was building new homes, I had a painting bid that was 1/3 third what the other painters were charging.
There was no way I was going to let someone touch my woodwork if they felt they couldn't take the proper amount of time and effort for the quality job I was wanting. Sometimes you get what you pay for.

 

[Ian Gills]

In the North-East things are more expensive. The picture of the home Terry posted could be bought for about $65,000 in Bothell. Possibly more if they'd used square windows instead of round ones and replaced the missing chimney caps.

Where I live, however, it would be so expensive even with these faults that you couldn't buy it because there aren't enough dollars in circulation. China might be able to afford one though...just.

Bottom line. How much should you pay them? How long is a piece of string? Just get them out and right it off as a loss.

 

[Ballvalve]

The house is bank owned and the paint is peeling by now. Brave new world.