How to solder correctly

[CHH]

jip jip foo

Is that yes, no, or maybe?

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

plumbers have tough anti-bodies

I think that doing plumbing work has
built up my immune system to probably
10-20 times what the average clerk working
in an office probably has to germs....

Plumbers probably have some very tough anti-bodies..

and wether it equates to a long life span or not
remains to be seen......

Recently while cleaning out our old basement at the plumbing office I found a couple hundred feet of
brand new perfectly preserved vintage 1940 asbestos rope....used to caulk between the door to seal the lineing oon boilers or something like that..I was told.

I threw it all in a couple of heavy duty plastic garbage bags and then. pitched it in the dumpster..

I suppose it should have killed my father long ago..it
never has phased him yet......
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


but something eventually is going to kill you....

wether you slip on a bar of soap in the bath
or die from some disease.....

I dont worry about it...

because you never know ,

you might just wake up dead some morning


and then

all the time worrying about fumes and asbestos
and chemecals leaching into your skin was all for nothing......

 

[Sponsor]

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

jip jip foo

Ladies and gentlemen...please stand back...DO NOT attempt to try this at home....

 

[gogi]

Forgive me if I sound like an idiot, but...

I had to replace an old hose bib and decided to do the job myself. When I cut the pipe above the shut off valve I found out that the valve had a small leak, it was about 20 years old. So I now had to replace the valve as well. I had a real hard time making the connection between the copper tube 1/2 inch and the shut off valve because the valve was brass or something. I used one of those package kits from home despot that comes with torch, flux, etc. The darn solder just wouldn't melt right. Well after several tries I seemed to get it right, though I feel like I might have overheated it.

I finished the connections and turned the water back on and the connection all held. It has now been a week and still no leaks, but I am just not confident.

Question: If the connection have not leaked after one week, is it OK?

Thanks...

 

[Prashster]

The likelihood of a leaky connection decreases as time passes.

That being said, it can still fail. You should monitor the joint periodically. After a month or so, I'd be confident enough to not check it.

Overheating might have damaged the valve, though. Have you checked that you can open and close it properly? and that it seals properly?

While brass takes longer to heat, the usual problem with the solder not taking is a dirty joint. The Bernzomatic kit comes with emory cloth; I assume you used that and rubbed both ends to a good shine. Might have wanted to upgrade the flux to Oatey SlfTinning 95, though.

 

[Speedbump]

When doing the bread trick always use Whole Wheat, it's lower in Carbs.

Always tell the women to not flush the toilet while the bread is in the lines. Thats the first place it will go when the water is turned back on. When the toilet fill gets plugged with the WW bread (notice I said when not if) you will have to take it apart to clean. Be sure to turn off the little faucet thingie under the toilet first. Bread and rusty water on the ceiling really Pi**** off the little women when they didn't follow the "Don't Flush Request".

 

[Richard'sRenu]

I was at the latest Big Box store- and they had a "Plumber's Bread." It's made from corn starch and supposedly completly dissolves in a couple minutes.

Anybody used this stuff?

Richard

 

[Prashster]

When doing the bread trick always use Whole Wheat, it's lower in Carbs

I found the opposite to be true. I try to use the whitest, least grainy, smoothest, squishiest bread possible. The 'wholer' the wheat, the worse it is on my aerators....

 

[SteveW]

I was at the latest Big Box store- and they had a "Plumber's Bread." It's made from corn starch and supposedly completly dissolves in a couple minutes.

Anybody used this stuff?

Richard

I have - worked fine, no residue in the faucet aerators.

 

[biffrennie]

When heating the fitting,,, what part of the flame should be touching the fitting?? The very tip of the flame? or the middle part where it is a blue color or what??
I'm remodeling a master bath and moving copper lines around and.......
Man, this soldering is hit and miss for me. I'll be going along sweating joints and the solder will flow just fine and then all of sudden everything just goes to h*** in a handbasket and I can't solder a joint to save my life. I try to do everything the same every time to be consistent but sometimes the solder just won't flow and then I screw it up by overheating it and have to cut it out and start over. I clean the surfaces inside and out with emery cloth and then use plenty of flux on all surfaces but sometimes it just doesn't flow.

Let me ask another question:
What do you do when the joint is vertical and the flux runs out and down the pipe when you heat it up?? Now you have no flux left in the joint to draw the solder up into it. Not to mention the burn on your hand from the hot flux that just dripped down.

AND... How do you heat a fitting on all sides when it's in the wall between a couple of studs and sheetrock on the back side of the wall.
I'm trying to heat the joint on all sides and I'm burning the paper off of the sheetrock behind it.

I just wonder if I'm overheating the fitting!!!!!!!!!!
About how long should you leave heat on a 1/2 inch elbow for example before you try to flow the solder??

I've got to get my technique down because I've still got a considerable amount of pipefitting to do here and I am experiencing some pinhole leaks in a few of the joints when I turn the water back on.

Thanks in advance.....

 

[Speedbump]

Some may have other techniques, but I have always put the heat on one spot on the female part of the joint and held the solder on the opposite side. When it flows your done. It helps to have a hot torch, like a Turbo Torch with MAPP gas, that's always been my favorite.

The flux can flow out all it wants, it's already done it's job as long as you got the copper all shiney all the way around on both pieces.

bob...

 

[CHH]

I'm sure the pro's will get you lined out but I'll add my 0.02 ($US) anyway.

Small "pinhole" leaks in an otherwise well soldered joint sounds like inadequate prep. Have you tried using a wire brush sized specifically to clean the inside of the fittings? The drill mounted brushes make short work of getting a perfect cleaning job on the joint.

OTOH, for me cleaning the inside portion of a 1/2 inch joint with emory cloth just doesn't work. If I use my bare finger so I can actually get in the joint then I end up touching the inside and contaminating the joint. If I wear a glove then I can't get my fat finger in the joint so it doesn't get cleaned to it's full depth.

On the flame question, the inner blue flame is the hottest portion.

On the vertical joints where the solder needs to flow up, heat the highest portion of the joint and the heat will draw the solder up. Do not heat the tube.

As for troubles with soldering in walls, use a flame shield and use a hose mounted torch for manuverability. For 1/2 inch there is no need to worry too much about heating the entire joint.

Your question on how long to heat the joint depends on the fuel and torch. With mapp gas and a swirling flame on 1/2 inch it's over almost before you start. With a DIY kit from Bernzomatic using propane, well, it can take much longer.

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

CHH...you may not be the quintessential "pro" per say, but I'd bet money you know a thing er two on this topic.
You pretty much described the way I solder...except one thing...once the fitting is hot enough I back the flame away enough to maintain heat without burning out the flux.
I'd guess you do that too but forgot to mention it.
I've worked with industrial pipe fitters/steam fitters...you guys get exposed to it all as far as technique is concerned.

 

[biffrennie]

Thanks for the replies..

I went and bought all new stuff today at HD as mine was old. I read on this forum somewhere where the flux can get old and separated and screwed up, so I bought new Oatey H20-95 flux, Oatey Safe-Flow Solder, new flux brushes... mine were full of old flux, new emory cloth, new 1/2" inside brush for cleaning (yes CHH I have been using a brush on the insides). That flux and solder I bought was the only Oatey products that they stocked,, it's not like I had much of a choice.... .


When I install and solder in the shower valve: Should I lay it all out flat on the floor and solder the joints and then put it up and make a connection with couplers down lower?? Or just solder the joints up in the wall? And if so, do you start soldering at the valve and work your way out or what?

About how much heat will it take to flow solder into the female connection port of the heavier valve body?? 3 seconds, 7 seconds, 20 seconds??
I would guess it's going to take alot more heat on that thicker material of the valve body.. correct??
I'm using a BENZOMATIC bottle with the auto igniter trigger.

And for the sink faucet:
How do you stub out the hot and cold supply from the wall for the sink faucet before the sheetrocker comes and hangs the drywall?? Do you just put in a 3" long nipple and cap it until he's done taping and texturing and then put on your shut off valve??
And do the same for the drain?

 

[Markts30]

When I install and solder in the shower valve: Should I lay it all out flat on the floor and solder the joints and then put it up and make a connection with couplers down lower?? Or just solder the joints up in the wall? And if so, do you start soldering at the valve and work your way out or what?

About how much heat will it take to flow solder into the female connection port of the heavier valve body?? 3 seconds, 7 seconds, 20 seconds??
I would guess it's going to take alot more heat on that thicker material of the valve body.. correct???

1st - dissassemble the valve - take all the guts out so you don't overheat them...
The valve body will take more heat than a copper fitting but it is personal experience as to how much....
You can solder pieces into the body and them use couplers in the walls - if possible, that is usually how I try to do it - I use the stubs to anchor the valve solidly then just tie the water supplies etc in after setting the valve...

And for the sink faucet:
How do you stub out the hot and cold supply from the wall for the sink faucet before the sheetrocker comes and hangs the drywall?? Do you just put in a 3" long nipple and cap it until he's done taping and texturing and then put on your shut off valve??
And do the same for the drain?

most usually stub 1/2" copper with a hard solder cap on out of the wall then wait for the cabinets etc to be done...
Make sure you have a good 6-8" of pipe sticking out so you have enough to get a clean cut for putting the anglestops on later...
For the waste do similar... Stub a piece of plastic out 6-8" and put a cap on it to prevent sewer gas smells... cut later and install the waste and vent connector.

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

If the back side of the flame reflecting off the fitting is turning green, you're getting too hot.

Taking a flux brush with flux on a joint that won't close usually solves the problem when it's dirty, not in the case with water though.

Always open valves in the line, everywhere, drop a belly in the pipe to quickly solder a joint that's having water travel through it.

Preparation of a solder joint can be easily destroyed if you overheat it. http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_ht_3d_index.asp?page_id=35749917

 

[Cookie]

Just incase someone doesn't know ...
acetone acetate is a carcinogen.
In addition, the medical supply stores carry a large assortment of plastic gloves.