How to pull 2" well?

[Smooky]

Hopefully you can repair the existing system. If that is impossible you might be able to replace what you have with a 2" packer ejector and some kind of adapter for the well casing.
I doubt you can use a shallow well pump. You will need to measure the static water level to determine if that is possible.

http://www.deanbennett.com/cpj10-jetpumps.htm

The first 20 seconds of this animation is a single pipe packer ejector:

 

[Maxwelhse]

From what I understand (which is little) doesn't the packer system require the casing of the well to be good? If my case is messed up won't that system fail?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Smooky]

That is true for a packer. The well casing would have to be in good shape for it to seal properly. All I'm saying is if it is good you might be able to salvage what you got with a few modifications. If that don't work you might be drilling a new well.

 

[Maxwelhse]

I would like a little bit of information on how to salvage what I've got by turning it into a shallow well and what parts would be needed for that based only on the assumption that I have a hole in the yard that is 20' deep and has water in it.

Literally anything I can do to make the current hole in the yard bring water into the house again is what I need to do. I have no way to raise the funds to drill a new well. It would actually be more realistic for me to buy water from a neighbor through a garden hose if it came down to it.

 

[Reach4]

Literally anything I can do to make the current hole in the yard bring water into the house again is what I need to do. I have no way to raise the funds to drill a new well. It would actually be more realistic for me to buy water from a neighbor through a garden hose if it came down to it.

If you did get water from a neighbor, you could find something better than a garden hose -- particularly if you plan to drink the water.

If the water level is 30 ft lower than the pump, the shallow pump is not going to work. 25 ft or lower than the pump, and it would probably work I think. Between those numbers, it is maybe.

 

[Maxwelhse]

If you did get water from a neighbor, you could find something better than a garden hose -- particularly if you plan to drink the water.

If the water level is 30 ft lower than the pump, the shallow pump is not going to work. 25 ft or lower than the pump, and it would probably work I think. Between those numbers, it is maybe.

I have no plan to drink the water (I was being dramatic to illustrate the point... though somewhat ironically I do have potable rated garden hose), but the bigger issue would be it freezing this winter. My neighbor is cool and understanding, but probably not cool enough to let me plumb to her house as a permanent solution to my problem. My point was, $5k for a new well isn't going to happen. The option just isn't available, so basically ANY hail Mary attempt to let me take showers and wash my clothes and dishes is worth investigating.

*IF* the plan on file is accurate, the well is 21 feet deep and the pump is 3 feet underground. It should work. I just need to know what supplies I would need to convert it over so I can get an idea of cost. Basically, I need someone to tell me what you need to make a shallow well inside a 2" casing work.

Again, I realize this is a hail Mary attempt and any sane person with some financial baking would just have a new well drilled, but that's just not an option...

 

[Reach4]

Remember I have no experience. I think that if you suck on one of the pipes with a shallow well jet pump, and if there is not a leak that sucks air, and the other conditions (water level) were met, then I don't see why it wouldn't work. But suppose your spool or pitless or whatever it is has a tiny leak. As a deep jet pump, that would not be much of a problem, because the pipes would be pressurized with water. Air can go through smaller cracks, so that same tiny leak could be a big deal with a shallow well jet pump.

So I would see if I can see the water level and estimate depth. If the hardware keeps you from seeing that, you could just convert your pump back to a shallow well pump and try sucking on one pipe, and then the other. Your pump will need some priming. For one of the pipes you may have to have the above ground union sealed tight. Not sure. Seems worth a try.

 

[Maxwelhse]

I'm not at all discounting your lack of experience in terms of you genuinely wanting to help me out. I'll listen to anything anyone has to say and gladly thank you for taking the time to do it.

My assumption is that everything inside the well casing is trash (and probably the casing too), or will be as soon as I start yanking it out of the hole with a tractor or a cherry picker, and needs replaced (all the way down to a new pitless adapter). I'm looking for the shotgun approach to converting this thing to a shallow well and just being done with it. What pipe, adapters, foot valve/check valve, screen, etc, etc, whatever do I need so I can price it and order it? I'm not going to find this stuff at the local Home Depot.

 

[Valveman]

Two pipes and a jet assembly will not fit down a 2" casing. So if it is a two pipe jet set up, you must have some kind of casing adapter and a packer now. Unless you can get the packer out, you won't be able to use a single pipe shallow well set up. I don't know why anyone would use a two pipe jet in a well that is only 21' deep. The water level has to be higher than the depth of the well, and a one single pipe shallow well set up will work from that depth. If the well only needs to be 21' deep, I think I would just move over and drive a new point and not even mess with the old well.

 

[Texas Wellman]

It's already got a packer jet installed. It's somehow got a "pitless" adapter. It may not be pitless, but somehow a homemade connection for the drive and suction pipe, all buried.

I guess what I'm asking is how it works if there is not a pitless adapter. I don't even know what I don't know at this point.

There are 2 plastic irrigation pipes that leave the pump and go through the side of the foundation in the basement. I assume they both go to the well in a deep pump configuration.

 

[ACWxRADR]

Maxwelhse,

Without knowing what equipment is truly down in the well casing, how viable the well casing is, how deep it is or how deep the static water level is, it is difficult to recommend what could be done to "make do" until the time when city or county water can be provided. Your current situation and desire to not throw money down a hole in the ground is certainly understood.

The success of my recommendation would depend greatly upon the condition of the well screen and the static water level.

My notion would be to excavate the top of the well, open it and remove all of the well string pipes and foot valves, etc. from the well screen itself. Then, supply yourself with lengths of 1-1/4" PVC pipe, a 1-1/4" PVC sand point, a PVC check valve and INTERNAL PVC couplings (as opposed to the standard external PVC couplings). The internal couplings slide inside of the PVC pipe instead of over the outside so that they do not increase the outside diameter of the pipe or sand point.

This PVC pipe string, after assembly and gluing together, should be able to slip down into the 2" well screen pipe, all except the PVC check valve as that would be of larger diameter. You should be able to purchase all of this PVC plumbing parts and fittings for something between $50 and $125 total.

You could take your existing pump and convert it back (possibly) to a simple shallow well jet pump by plugging off the ejector port, so you may not need a different pump to try this - therefore no additional expense.

You would have to excavate the plumbing lines between the well and the entry at the house wall so that you can lay the new PVC pipe in the trench and ensure that you have no "air traps" between the well and the pump. The path of the pipe and all fittings between the well entry and the pump should be level or slope up to the pump in a straight line, even if it is a straight vertical path. Main point is that there should be no "jogs" in this plumbing that go up and back down and up again.

You will also want to install a tee with a removable (sealable) fitting or a cheap PVC ball valve somewhere near the pump inlet and between the inlet and the check valve so that you can open it and fill it with priming water.

This configuration may possibly get you by with very little expense and without too much excavating. It won't be perfect, but it may certainly be a great improvement upon what you have now. If it is possible to begin with.

Otherwise, I would investigate driving a 1-1/4" shallow well sandpoint in a new location until you can get on city water. That is, if your static water table is less than 28 feet. That is, 28 feet from water table to pump height. The theoretical limit is something like 32.14 feet, but that is not achievable - it is just academic. In real world situations, you probably won't be able to manage it if the depth is greater than 28 feet.

Good luck!

Gordy

 

[Reach4]

Maxwelhse, it seems to me that you could push air down one pipe with a compressor, and have air and/or water come out the other pipe. If you can build pressure only to 12 psi or less, then you would seem to be able to have a shallow well pump. If it gets to 14 psi, you cannot have a shallow well pump. Atmospheric pressure is about 14 PSI, and it is the atmospheric pressure that lifts the water when using a shallow well.

It seems highly unlikely, but I wonder if air pressure could possibly clear a clog in the jet. Too much to hope for, I think.

Click Inbox above.

 

[Maxwelhse]

Maxwelhse,

Without knowing what equipment is truly down in the well casing, how viable the well casing is, how deep it is or how deep the static water level is, it is difficult to recommend what could be done to "make do" until the time when city or county water can be provided. Your current situation and desire to not throw money down a hole in the ground is certainly understood.

The success of my recommendation would depend greatly upon the condition of the well screen and the static water level.

My notion would be to excavate the top of the well, open it and remove all of the well string pipes and foot valves, etc. from the well screen itself. Then, supply yourself with lengths of 1-1/4" PVC pipe, a 1-1/4" PVC sand point, a PVC check valve and INTERNAL PVC couplings (as opposed to the standard external PVC couplings). The internal couplings slide inside of the PVC pipe instead of over the outside so that they do not increase the outside diameter of the pipe or sand point.

This PVC pipe string, after assembly and gluing together, should be able to slip down into the 2" well screen pipe, all except the PVC check valve as that would be of larger diameter. You should be able to purchase all of this PVC plumbing parts and fittings for something between $50 and $125 total.

You could take your existing pump and convert it back (possibly) to a simple shallow well jet pump by plugging off the ejector port, so you may not need a different pump to try this - therefore no additional expense.

You would have to excavate the plumbing lines between the well and the entry at the house wall so that you can lay the new PVC pipe in the trench and ensure that you have no "air traps" between the well and the pump. The path of the pipe and all fittings between the well entry and the pump should be level or slope up to the pump in a straight line, even if it is a straight vertical path. Main point is that there should be no "jogs" in this plumbing that go up and back down and up again.

You will also want to install a tee with a removable (sealable) fitting or a cheap PVC ball valve somewhere near the pump inlet and between the inlet and the check valve so that you can open it and fill it with priming water.

This configuration may possibly get you by with very little expense and without too much excavating. It won't be perfect, but it may certainly be a great improvement upon what you have now. If it is possible to begin with.

Otherwise, I would investigate driving a 1-1/4" shallow well sandpoint in a new location until you can get on city water. That is, if your static water table is less than 28 feet. That is, 28 feet from water table to pump height. The theoretical limit is something like 32.14 feet, but that is not achievable - it is just academic. In real world situations, you probably won't be able to manage it if the depth is greater than 28 feet.

Good luck!

Gordy

Thanks a ton for the input. That's exactly what I was looking for and also sort of what I had in my mind. Basically just sticking a chunk of pipe in the casing and seeing if I can pump water from it (in a very round about sense). My main fear is that once I start pulling on stuff, it won't go back in the hole if things don't go well. Is it common to have all of this stuff just break or get stuck in a well casing once you start pulling on it? My "plan" for conversion would be a last ditch effort so I just want to know what I could be getting into.

Right now the plan is that my neighbor has very graciously let me straight up borrow (for free! In a hilarious stroke of irony, when her well failed and my house was sitting empty on the market before I bought it, she was stealing water from it via the spigots until she could get a new well herself. So she knows my pain ) her 10 year old, but brand new, pump and booster to give them a try in the hope that my pump itself is just roasted from years and years of debris being fed through it and cavitation from the problems the well itself no doubt has. Right now, every time the pump stops (which is all manual, btw... I have to manually start and stop it every time I want to pump water) it sounds like the pump itself is full of marbles and sand.

-----

So... Now that I understand the hail Mary approach, see if you folks can follow this plan:

Any time my current pump gets under about 15psi, it simply refuses to build any pressure. My current way of "fixing" this is to pump some air into the bladder tank to get the pressure back up to around 20psi, then it will pump water again (but as I said before, weirdly the pump isn't losing prime when this happens. When I open the priming plug pressurized water shoots out at me) and I slowly let the air back out of the tank so more water can fill it (so when it happens again I can use the same trick again)... I've had to do this probably 6 or 8 times in the past week or so and it's consistently working, but is obviously a pain.

So... I'm terrified that I can make a bad situation worse by removing ALL of the pressure from the well by switching pumps and boosters and render my bad well completely inoperable. What I'm planning to do to hedge my bets is to put shut off valves and nipples on all of the connections of the "new" pump/booster assembly, release all of the air pressure from the bladder, and take the entire assembly to my father's business (which routinely gets about 80psi of city water), lay it on it's side to hopefully not trap much air in it (maybe even stand it on it's head and fill it like a bucket, then pressurize it), fill it up, close the valves, and install it full of pressurized water with an empty air bladder (that I can then add air pressure to if the city water pressure in the tank isn't enough), open the valves, and pray for the best. I've got to think that if I do that, even though it's convoluted and crazy, that it can't possibly make things worse than what I have now. I'm thinking I should be able to pull the same "trick" with the bladder tank and that volume of pressurized water stored and the pump pre-primed.

Also, for the record, the "new" booster tank is probably 1/2 again larger than what I currently have, so that should be 1/2 again more water volume to pressurize the "other side" of the well and it will be at 80psi (or whatever the gauge on the tank reports when this is all said and done) and not 10 or 15psi like what happens here when I have to get my air hose out... and again, I will still have the air hose option if that fails in and of itself.

Soo... In theory... that should "work"... right?

 

[Valveman]

I still think you have a clogged jet assembly down the well. But with a 2 pipe jet, the little pipe going down the well has to have enough pressure to make the jet work to build pressure. So the backpressure valve on the discharge of the pump could be bad, which is why you have to build backpressure with extra air in the tank. You can use a regular ball valve instead of the backpressure valve, then you can control how much backpressure the jet assembly is getting.