How to install a wax ring on a toilet with a offset flange

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by james36526, Dec 17, 2004.

  1. james36526

    james36526 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    How do I install a wax ring on a toilet with a offset flange

    My toilet has an offset flange that is oblong and with an opening larger than the size of a wax ring.The right side flange bolt is on an ear that is over the waste pipe.How do I seal the connection at the floor.The flange was used to move the toilet to the left away from the sink cabinet.Any ideas?
    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2004
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    wax ring

    Yes, and the idea, rather the fact, is that you have a problem. Because of the way the flange was rotated, the wax ring on that side is not going to seal to the bowl next to its "throat" but rather outside the anchor bolt. For this reason, you have to use two wax rings and splice them together using a piece from the second one to make the first one larger. But that will only seal the bottom of the bowl to the flange, it will not seal the "opening" where the anchor bolt is and nothing will make it waterproof. The best you can do is to fill the bolt hole with some of the left over wax from the second ring to try to make it odor proof.
     
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  4. hudson

    hudson Member

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    Apr 9, 2009
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Toilet Offset Flange 2 Wax Rings

    I had the same problem as above and tried the same solution as above. In the picture, you can see the result of my first try...the single seal didn't do the job so I plugged all the holes to the right with wax, put on a new wax ring. No leaks...no odors.

    The toilet is a Toto Eco Drake....I flushed four paper towels OK.

    I haven't caulked around the toilet yet...I guess in this case, that would be a good idea????

    Am I done?

    Thanks!
     

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    Last edited: Dec 5, 2009
    webby778 likes this.
  5. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

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    Location:
    Yakima WA
    caulking around the toilet base is a good idea, but not for the reason you are thinking. The caulk is to prevent water spilled on the floor from an accident or mopping from getting under the toilet. It will not seal the flange. The wax ring is all that will do that.
     
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  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    offset

    The problem is those gaps above and below the right hand bolt. Unless that "extra" wax ring is TIGHT to the flange, and there is nothing to force it to be, then if water backs up it will flow through those gaps and out onto the floor, unless it is caulked in which case it will flow wherever there is an opening. As you can see, the flange opening extends beyond the right hand bolt, and since wax rings seal to the LEFT of that bolt, there is no real seal on that side, even if you open the wax ring to cover the entire rim of the flange.
     
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  7. hudson

    hudson Member

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    Apr 9, 2009
    Location:
    North Carolina
    My options then are probably...

    1. Leave it as it is and hope for the best. The old toilet had been ok since a remodeling job 20 years ago. When I removed it, there was nothing there but wax, and the part on the right side was open. I probably should NOT caulk the toilet so that I can tell if it is leaking.

    2. Tear out the existing offset and put in something else...replumb underneath?? There's a crawlspace underneath...4 feet of head space.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2009
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    New England
    An offset flange may have been selected because there's a joist where they wanted to install a regular one. YOu won't know how easy it would be to replace with a standard flange without looking.
     
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  9. hudson

    hudson Member

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    Location:
    North Carolina
    hj: "then if water backs up it will flow through those gaps and out onto the floor"

    So the most common problem for me will be if there is a clog in the pipe somewhere below the flange. The liquid will push through my wax dam at the weakest point.

    If there's any pressure build up in the flange area, or any weakening of my wax dam, I'll have a leak.

    I guess my plan will be to wait and see. In the next 5-10 years, I'll remodel that bathroom and be sure to get it right.
     
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  10. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    flange

    IF you NEED an offset flange there, that is the only one which will work, and it might be difficult to find a new one once that "bracker" for the right hand bolt breaks off, (and 95% of them, even cast iron ones, do eventually snap). The "proper" offset flange needs more "depth" than you have there.
     
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  11. David Falk

    David Falk New Member

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    May 3, 2015
    Location:
    Florida
    I have the same offset flange. My biggest problem is that it is in my concrete slab. They put the pipe originally too close to the wall.
    So then they added the offset. my opening is on the right side of where the bowel sits. There is about a 3" X 1/2" of open area above the sewer pipe, outside of the flange.
    I am going to do like Hudson did and use a second mud ring and pack it into this opening and hope for the best. There is no chance of moving that pipe. I would need to jack hammer the concrete out to move the pipe. The last time I replaced the toilet I didn't even notice the gap and just installed the bowel and caulked around it. I noticed the error when I did this remodel and removed the old toilet and found a stinky mess underneath.
    hopefully this plugging it up with the wax, will make it better for the next time. (If there is one.)
     
  12. hudson

    hudson Member

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    Location:
    North Carolina
    Results since my contribution above about 6 years ago: My solution was to get more wax and I packed it in as much as possible and hoped for the best. It's held for 6 years. No problems. I hurt my back setting the toilet...next time I will hire a plumber. I plan to re-do the bathroom sometime in the next few years. When I open up the floor, I'll call a plumber to solve the original problem. I'll do the demolition, the flooring, the painting, and the electrical. I'll hire the sheet rock work and plumbing.

    Good luck David! Upload a picture if possible.
     
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  13. Plumbs Away

    Plumbs Away Active Member

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    Dec 27, 2014
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Before I'd try to sculpt multiple wax rings and rip out and replace plumbing, I would try the Sani Seal. It's large enough so that when compressed with the weight and tightening down of the toilet bowl, it should take care of it, IF I understand this issue correctly.
    Sani Seal.jpg
     
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  14. David Falk

    David Falk New Member

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    May 3, 2015
    Location:
    Florida
    I had bought a more expensive low profile rubber seal for this job. So I used that, and the new toilet came with a cheap wax ring. So I pulled it apart and molded it around the opening the the main ring didn't cover. It works like a dream so far. I am going to wait a day or so before I caulk around the bowel to be sure it is not going to leak. But so far so good.

    Thanks everyone for your posts on this.
     
  15. David Falk

    David Falk New Member

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    Location:
    Florida
    If the holes in that ring are for the johnny bolts, then this won't work either. The opening we are talking about, is outside of that ring as well. To the right of the right bolt.
     
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  16. David Falk

    David Falk New Member

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    Location:
    Florida
    Hudson, I was wrong, the flange I have is exactly like the first picture you posted. I did just like you did and all is well so far. No pictures of it.
     
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  17. hudson

    hudson Member

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    Apr 9, 2009
    Location:
    North Carolina

    I think that I did the same...I crammed wax in every nook and cranny until it oozed out the sides trying to make it work...it's held 6 years so far.
     

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  18. webby778

    webby778 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Location:
    Asheboro, North Carolina
    I've never set a toilet, but I can watch YouTube videos, so I took on the project when after a few months of owning our house, my wife decided we needed new toilets. One toilet had a leaking wax ring (yellowish leak and odor), a handle that would easily stick, and a badly stained toilet seat. With all these problems, we figured a new toilet was in order.

    The other toilet needed a new seat, but she wanted it replaced anyways. Bad idea. I soon found out that it had an oval offset flange as described in this thread. You know that saying, "If it ain't broke don't fix it"? Yup, that applies. (btw, we bought the Delta Lila at Home Depot on sale for $107, http://tinyurl.com/HDDeltaLilah. We've really like them so far.)

    This thread was the most helpful and I thought I would add to the conversation. In these pictures, the black flange is mine. I used two wax rings: 1) one totally plain one that I could use for molding, and another one (reinforced with the flack plastic cone) that would be used as a regular wax ring.

    With that extra wax ring I...
    • cut a third of the seal and used as the "base" of my "dam." I turned it upside down so the flat part was pointing up and the round part was pointing down into the flange. (see pics for "dam" location).
    • sealed the perimeter of the flange since I did not caulk around the toilet. I want to guard against shower water that would inevitably seep under toilet.
    • sealed all remaining holes on the flange.
    • used he remaining wax, I mushed into my hands and used as a mud to seal and secure the dam.
    In these pics, I pulled one from another site and one from Hudson above. The other is my finished product before setting the toilet. I hope this helps!

    pvcoffsetflange3.jpg toilet wax ring work.JPG IMG_8682.JPG
     
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  19. hudson

    hudson Member

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    Location:
    North Carolina
    Great job webby778! Nice Pics...mine is still working fine. When it gives out, I'm going to get a plumber to get rid of my work-around.
    but....anything that works is good technique!
     
  20. hudson

    hudson Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I've come full circle as an early April 2009 poster. I'm remodeling the bathroom. My installer cut the support joist out of the way and made room for the plumber to put the commode drain assembly in correctly. My wax dam held up for a long time...but now I think everything is installed correctly...I think.

    Pic 7157 shows the finished job.
    Pic 6821 shows where the installer cut the joist out of the way and put support behind it. The plumber stuck a temporary pipe and drain assembly in the hole...waiting for the installer to call him back.

    Great website! Great assistance! Thanks to all!
     

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    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
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