How can AS Glenwall fit standard carriers?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Joerg, Jan 20, 2006.

  1. Joerg

    Joerg New Member

    Messages:
    138
    Location:
    Califonia
    Hello Folks,

    It's like detective work. I saw in the spec sheet for the Glenwall (wall mount) that its waste horn was listed as 3-7/8" in diameter. Didn't make sense so I called. Yep, they said, that's what it is. They even measured it to make sure.

    The usual carriers from Wade and so on have a flange (closet coupling) with an inner diameter of 3-13/16". That is less than the toilet. How on earth is that ever going to fit? Especially considering the slack in the bolt holes which is almost 1/2"?

    Looks like the Glenwall is out for us and I have to keep calling around to find one with the usual 3-2/3" or whatever waste horn. Until my fingers are blue from dialling. No fun :mad:

    Anyway, if anyone needs to replace a wall mount toilet bet prepared for a lot of frustration. I'm about ready to bust up the floor and get rid of this dreaded wall mount "feature".

    Regards, Joerg.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2008
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,444
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I've installed about twenty Glenwalls on existing wall mount brackets.

    I don't see a problem.

    I think I've replaced about every brand of 4-bolt wall hung out there.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2010
  3. Joerg

    Joerg New Member

    Messages:
    138
    Location:
    Califonia
    Hello Terry,

    Can you tell me a little about the flange join-up? Just to make sure ours is the standard. The pipe is fixed in the wall, I can't change it.

    Zurn doesn't have much detail on their drawings. Wade does and they show the inner diameter of the closet connector flange to be 3-13/16 inches. How does the 3-7/8 inch Glenwall horn go in there (without creating a potential leak)?

    Thing is, with all the freight charges it would be pretty much impossible to send a toilet back if it doesn't fit.

    Regards, Joerg.
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,301
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    horn

    IT doesn't "go in there". The pipe fits into the toilet recess. The only thing that "goes in there", and even then it doesn't very far is the actual outlet opening of the toilet, and that is much smaller. ALL conventional wall hung toilets are made the same way. They do not make special carriers for each brand of wall hung toilet.
  5. Joerg

    Joerg New Member

    Messages:
    138
    Location:
    Califonia
    Hello HJ,

    That's exactly the point: Only the outlet opening goes in there by 1/4" or so to keep the gasket compressed. But the AS Glenwall spec sheet says that outlet has an outer diameter of 3-7/8". I called them to make sure and they said "yes, it is 3-7/8 and we just measured it for you".

    The flange has an inner diameter of 3-13/16". The toilet's 3-7/8" opening can't possibly go in there at all and even if I honed it out a bit there would still be no allowance for the slack around the toilet's four mounting bolts, to prevent 'riding' on the flange. Unless, of course, our pipe flange is not standard but Wade also specs their carriers as 3-13/16".

    The only toilet I found that has a 3-3/8" outlet is the Eljer Walford. Maybe I have to try my luck and find one of those. Still waiting for word back from Crane on their Rexmont (they had no drawings on that part at all).

    Regards, Joerg.
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,301
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    flange

    I am not sure why you keep referring to it as a flange. It should be the equivalent of a straight 4" nipple with an i.d. of 4". I have installed hundreds of wall hung toilets, and have never had one that did not fit the carrier properly. And since all carriers are the same, I do not see why you should have the problem you are describing.
  7. Joerg

    Joerg New Member

    Messages:
    138
    Location:
    Califonia
    Hello HJ,

    Sorry for the wrong word, yes, I meant the nipple. It is 4", actually a tad smaller inside just like the ones on the Wade carriers.

    The outlet of the toilets (except the Eljer) is also almost 4". But since you said it always fit in your cases I'll just assume it will be ok.

    Question: Since the toilet outlet goes into the nipple by about 1/4" doesn't the whole toilet ride on that nipple? The four mounting holes in most toilets are 7/8" while the bolts are only 1/2". That would allow the toilet to veer downwards by almost 3/8" and there isn't any slack between nipple and outlet diameters.

    Regards, Joerg.
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,301
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    carrier

    The bolts are 5/8", and the two bottom ones and upper left one are to have nuts installed flush with the surface of the wall, with washers on them. The 4" nipple and the bolts project the specified amount for your toilet, (that is not a generic measurement so you have to check the specifications). The gasket is put into the toilet recess, then the toilet is slid onto the bolts, (there will be little room for misalignment), and the upper left nut started in order to hold it in place. Then the two bottom acorn nuts are installed to push the toilet into the gasket and against the metal washers at the wall. Finally the upper left acorn nut is tighted to press the toilet firmly against the three washers and then the upper right acorn nut is installed. It is hand tightened against the toilet, and then turned about a half turn additional, NO MORE than that or you could crack the toilet. Install the tank and you are done, hopefully with no leaks.
  9. Joerg

    Joerg New Member

    Messages:
    138
    Location:
    Califonia
    Hello HJ,

    Maybe I should just go ahead and do it. Will have to order some stuff including the gasket. The local store only had the 3-1/2" ID gaskets which fit the Eljer but not the other wall hungs it seems.

    But first I have to redo the framing. The carrier had been put in very sloppily and it sagged. Plus the nipple didn't protrude the usual 5/16" so the wall will have to be recesses a bit, essentially by building a new wall.

    Thanks for your help, Joerg.
  10. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,301
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    5/16"

    Change the nipple.
  11. Joerg

    Joerg New Member

    Messages:
    138
    Location:
    Califonia
    Hello HJ,

    If I could do that I'd be home. But I can't. This is an 'old style' installation where the pipes are fixed in the wall and the "carrier" is merely a U-shaped piece of steel not connected to the pipe (old Ancon carrier). The nipple is glued in and there isn't enough 3" section left on it to cut it off and place a joint.

    In case someone else runs into the same problems I just got a call back from Crane. They measured the waste horn on a Rexmont and said it's 3-7/16". Meaning it should fit and the Zurn gasket will go over that.

    It still puzzles me that AS said the 3-7/8" waste horn diameter in their Glenwall drawing is correct. The Zurn gasket at the plumbing store was 3-1/2" inside and wouldn't go over that. I could almost bet the Glenwall is also under 3-1/2" but I am not going to take the risk and order it.

    So, now I am going to have to find someone with a table saw that has a 12" blade, to cut all the 4*4 pieces lengthwise.

    Thanks, Joerg.
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