House on a hill with no water pressure

[Mark Alan]

I am in the process of remodeling a house that sits on a hill. From what the county told me, there is 50 psi down at the bottom of the hill. The county ran what looks to be a 1 inch line from below the hill to my driveway. The elevation change is about 125 ft from the bottom to my house. I was told that I would need to install a pump at the bottom of the hill to get water to the house. Can someone please advise on the type of pump and what all is needed? I can get 120 or 240 volts for the pump. The house has one full bath, a powder room, laundry room and a kitchen with an ice maker in the refrigerator. I also have to outdoor taps.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[Valveman]

Well 125' is the same as 54 PSI. You will also have some friction loss in that 1" pipe. I would figure adding at least 60 PSI to the incoming 50 PSI at the bottom of the hill. This will give you 50 PSI at the top of the hill. It also means running a booster pump system with a 100/120 pressure switch setting and all the stuff that goes with such high pressure.

I would over size the pump a little in case the city only gives you 20-30 PSI instead of 50 PSI. A Goulds 10GB10 would work. Then I would oversize the pressure tank a little bit because of the 100/120 pressure. A 44 gallon pressure tank will only hold 6.5 gallons at that high pressure. This is still more pressure tank than you need when used with a CSV1A. The CSV1A would be set to hold a constant 110 PSI, so the pump isn't cycling between 100 and 120 while you are using water. Also going to need a GHG2 style pressure switch for 100/120 setting.

And if you do decide to use just a pressure tank without a CSV1A, I would use at least an 86 gallon size tank, and two of those would be better.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Mark Alan]

Thanks for the taking a look at the post and for the reply. From what I have read the CSV makes sense. Do you have any info on how to hook up a system like what you described? I am far from knowing anything about plumbing, and I don't remember the classes that had fluid dynamics in them.

 

[Mark Alan]

Would the tank go at the bottom of the hill?

 

[Valveman]

Yes the pump, tank, pressure switch, electric power, and everything will need to be down at the bottom of the hill. You can't suck water up that tall of a hill. This is not really the right drawing but pretty close.

 

[Mark Alan]

Thank you. Looking at the parts it looks to be around 1500 or so for the pump, tank, cvs, and switch. Not as bad as I thought.

 

[Mark Alan]

I have new info on my water line. Saturday I started looking at the line that comes out of the ground. When I follow it back I found a 2 inch line. So I have a 2 inch pipe that runs from the bottom of the hill up to my drive. I then have a reducer that goes to a 1 inch line.

I don't know it that would make any difference in what I will need to do to get water to the house or not. Can you please provide your thoughts?

 

[Valveman]

Actually 2" pipe is a good thing. It will have less or almost no friction loss, which I was just guessing at. So you might be able to run a few PSI less than I suggested, but it won't make that much difference.

 

[Tim Rite]

I agree with valveman. It won't make much of a difference depending on the pipe line. $1500 for the water pump, tank, cvs and switch seems like a good deal. Are buying individually or stock? I'm interested in where you found such a good deal.

 

[Mark Alan]

Thanks for the reply. I just wanted to make sure that having a 2 inch pipe would not change anything.

Tim,
That would be individually. I found the equipment online. I believe I have the site stored on my work computer, and will check on Monday.

 

[Jadnashua]

Water pressure changes by about 0.43#/foot elevation change. That's why they put towers on top of a hill. Throw in frictional losses, and it can go up. The hassle you might run into is freezing pipes. Huntsville may not be a problem, but a fairly tight utility building might be a good thing for the equipment and maybe a heater that could help for those rare days when it stays below freezing for long. The moving water won't freeze until it is really cold, but say overnight when nobody's using any, anything above ground and/or in the breeze, could freeze.

 

[Tim Rite]

I found some individual supplies for my latest project as well. The pipe was a good find but the solar water tank that I'm looking for is like Waldo: hard to find. They explain it well here but I'm still searching.

 

[Mark Alan]

Have any of you used a pump saver? This is what they claim.
SymCom 233P PumpSaver Plus Technical Details

• Protect Single Phase Pumps From the Following Conditions: Run Dry, Dead Head, Jammed Impeller, Rapid-Cycle, Overvoltage, and Undervoltage

 

[Valveman]

Very familiar. But I had to make my own because a lot of those are not sensitive enough to know the difference between low amps from a Cycle Stop Valve and slightly lower amps when the pump is running dry. I recommend one of these.

https://cpkits.com/collections/cycle-sensor-pump-monitors/products/cs1ph1-2hp230v

 

[Mark Alan]

Nice.

 

[Mark Alan]

I have one more question, and this is just for my knowledge. The 2 inch line going up to my property is being turned over to me by the county. So I was wondering if I could install a 5 or 6 inch pipe from the water meter with a submersible pump installed in it. then if needed I could run the pump output through the 2 inch line along with the wire for the pump up to my drive. At that point I could install the tank and switch along with power. This would make life much easier, and I could keep and eye on everything.

 

[Reach4]

So I was wondering if I could install a 5 or 6 inch pipe from the water meter with a submersible pump installed in it.

Are you talking about installing hundreds of feet of 5 inch pipe? Surely not. Or are you talking about making a pressurized container out of pipe that would contain a submersible pump to boost the pressure?

A multi-stage booster pump, as Valveman described, is like a submersible with its own pressure housing. They cost more than a similar submersible, but they don't involve the custom work.

You can have the booster pump down the hill a ways, and just run power, through the pressure switch, down from the house. The house would contain the pressure switch, pressure tank, and maybe a CSV. The pump would not have to be at the bottom, but could be placed part way up based on calculations. You don't want the pressure into the pump to go negative, even under worst case conditions. But you could have the pump roughly mid-way I estimate.

 

[Valveman]

Yes that is very possible. Grundfos even makes a submersible in a can for a booster pump, but it is not cheap. I have made cans for all sizes of submersibles. The trick is to seal around the 3-4 wires so the 50 PSI pressure cannot get out.

 

[Mark Alan]

How do you seal around a well and get the wire out, and the pump output?

 

[Mark Alan]

I am guessing a pitless adapter and a well head cap? but will that hold pressure?