Hot water problem - Found the cause, but not sure how to fix - Please help!

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kissiffer4

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Hi,

We have had a strange hot water problem for the past year (since we moved into the apartment).

If I run the hot tap in the bathroom (and every other room), the water stays hot for 30 seconds then runs warm/cold. If I turn it off and on again a half a minute later the same thing happens, hot for half a minute then cold. So, this makes taking baths and showers a real pain (esp. with a little son).

After a bit of troubleshooting, I went and started a hot wash on the washing machine and whilst the machine cycle was in the initial filling up stage with water, I ran to the bathroom and tried the hot water faucet again. This time it stayed hot consistently (for a few minutes) and only cooled down when the washing machine went into the next cycle (i.e. finished the filling up with hot water stage).

What I don't understand though, is how does putting the machine on a hot cycle fix the faucet hot water problem? Again, if I'm not using the machine, the hot water faucet issue remains 24/7.

One last thing, I realized too that the washing machine hot/cold water hoses are on back to front. To get the hot water cycle discussed above, I have to put the machine on the COLD wash setting.

Any advice would be much appreciated :)

Thanks.

One last thing, I think the hoses are on back to front on the washing machine. To do the hot wash, I have to turn the dial to COLD and vice versa.
 

Jadnashua

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You have a cross-over somewhere...it could be at the washing machine's connections, or some single handle faucets when they get worn can allow hot and cold to cross-over. Some brands are more notorious for that than others. To narrow it down, one by one, shut the cold water supply at each faucet in the apartment. WHen you find the one that stops the cross-over, you'll know which one needs to be repaired or replaced. Some single handle faucets will allow you to have the water turned off with it turned all the way to one side. Some force the handle back to the center point. If you can turn it all the way to one side, you might be able to try that rather than using the shutoff under the sink. If there's more than one tub/shower valve, those often don't have a shutoff, so then it becomes harder. Can you tell what brand faucets and valves are there?
 

kissiffer4

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Thanks so much for the advice. Am I correct in thinking the best place to start would be to turn off the washing machine valves? If I turn those off and it fixes the problem, does that mean I simply need to get a new washing machine?

As for the bathroom faucets (we have two bathrooms, one above the other on each floor), the one in the bath is Delta and the one for the sink is Brasscraft. The bath and sink faucets are both single spout faucets with the knob thing to turn to hot or cold. As for turning them off, it looks like under the sink there are is a hot and cold dial, but I don't see anything for the bath faucet.

We only moved in last year, and as far as I know, everything is a bit old (going on 15 years, and that includes the washing machine!).

Cheers.
 

kissiffer4

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Yeah, a little confused (know next to nothing about plumbing unfortunately). Just thought that since the problem goes away when I start a hot cycle on the washing machine that the problem would be with the machine hook up/valves? Or does that have little to do with it?

Cheers.
 

Jimbo

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We would like a pic of how the washing machine hoses are connected at the wall.

And while this may not be related to your problem....if your machine is a newer one, Whirlpool specifically, they have some issues with the water temp control. The little brain which controls the mixing of hot and cold was scrambled on earlier productions, and would at random for no apparent reason..REVERSE the hot and cold@! Yup. Happened to me. Had to get a 'rev C' water temp control module.
 

Terry

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You do not have a cross connection is at the washer. It sounds more like when the washer is filling, it purges the lines temporally and removes the crossed over water.
When you install washer hoses blind, you have a 50/50 chance of getting them right. That's kind of like life too. So many decisions are 50/50 and yet we can spend so much time pondering the big question, Left/Right, Up/Down etc. I tell my kids if the result is negligible, it's better to do it quickly, either way, you're going to find out real quick.
But back to the cross over. Sometimes a person will put a shutoff on a shower head, and open the shower valve, that way the water is always read to go, you just flick the lever on the shower arm, and you have instant water. Some people do this to save water, get your body wet, (water off) Soap up (water back on) Now rinse. Pretty cool idea except that the water crosses over. Not like into an after life; it just hangs out in the pipes mixing it up until someone opens up a valve and lets it all loose again.
That "type" of thing is what I would be looking for. It could even be the neighbors bathroom next door that has the cross over.
If that's the case, you may need to take a trip a "cross" the hall and discuss it with em.
 
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Do you have a tankless water heater? Most require a minimum flow rate before the burners will fire. Usually aound .75 - 1 gpm. It may be you turn on only hot to begin the shower and the flow is sufficient to kick on the burner. Then when you mix the cold, the hot side flow rate drops and the burners kick off from too little flow. When the washing machine is 'on', it provides sufficient added flow for the burners to say on. Maybe? If so, clean/replace the shower head for a larger flow rate.
 

hj

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You did NOT find the cause, you just found a way to eliminate the symptom. Washing machines do NOT cause a cross connection. More than likely the reason the washer stops the situation is that it draws a lot of hot water and may be in just the right location to overcome whatever is happening. There are many possibilities for your symptoms, one being a bad check valve and/or pump in a hot water recirculation system, but there are other ways it could happen also, but all would require that we be there to actually test the problem.
 

kissiffer4

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Thanks for all of the input. Terry, HJ, I see what you mean. I thought it was a certainty that the machine was to blame, but makes sense it may only be alleviating the problem. The plan is to get a plumber in, but the last time I did that (when I first tackled the problem a year ago), it cost me $300 for the guy to tell me that he thought the washing machine was to blame. He didn't do all of the checks that you guys suggested though. He did seem to think (as a novice I'm paraphrasing here a bit) that the machine is pushing the hot water back into the cold pipe (or vice versa?). It was only last week though that I started experimenting with the wash cycles and running the hot tap.

We are also on top two floors of a four story brownstone, with the hot water heater in the basement, so not sure if that makes a difference. The machine is going on 16 years old, so getting a new one might be a good place to start.

Cheers all.
 

Cacher_Chick

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If it were the washing machine, the problem would be resolved by closing either of the shut off valves at the washer.
 

hj

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A clothes washer has TWO valves for the water lines and the flow from them just drains into the tub, so there is NO WAY the washer can mix hot and cold water. It could ONLY do that if there was a single valve shutting off BOTH the hot and cold water. Any time a plumber blames a clothes washer for that kind of problem that is the time to get a different plumber because the one you have knows NOTHING about the dynamics of a water system.
 
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