HoseClamp on PEX

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Bill Arden

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I need to make some copper to PEX connections in a tight space and can't fit that large tool to crimp the ends.

So I am thinking of taking a piece of 3/4 PEX and placing it over the 1/2 PEX and then using a hose clamp to tighten it.
 

Jadnashua

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That's why the WIrsbo expansion tool/connector scheme is neat...expand the tubing, slide it over the fitting, hold momentarily and you're done.

No idea if your scheme would work...seems risky.
 

Jadnashua

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I think one of maybe critical things for using a SHarkbite fitting is to not overlook the end reamer they sell for the fittings. It makes a micro bevel on the end of the pipe so you don't dislodge or damage the O-ring. Omitting that one quick step may lead to disaster down the road or even immediately.
 

Bill Arden

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A worm gear hose clamp could never be tightened tight enough to secure a pex fitting.

I am wondering why that would be since my house has hose clamps on the pipe that comes up from the well.

The first think I noticed is that the pres-formed copper ends have a bur where the mold crimped them. With this small bur it would take a lot of force to mold the plastic to the part.

So I filled and sanded the ends so that each ring is smooth.
I also plan on using two clamps per hose with a outer hose to compress it more smoothly. I've found that hose clamps don't clamp evenly without an extra layer.

Given this is in a "Wash down" garage, I am not too worried if it leaks.

I think I'll look into using the push-type Shark connectors for the rest of the project.
 

Bill Arden

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That's why the WIrsbo expansion tool/connector scheme is neat...expand the tubing, slide it over the fitting, hold momentarily and you're done.

No idea if your scheme would work...seems risky.

I'm worried about the expansion tool process since it would not be able to mold the plastic to a badly formed fitting.

expansion tool + cheep connector = leak.
 

Cass

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Do it, and let us know if it floods the house some time in the future.
 

Jimbo

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For a worm gear clamp to work the material being clamped has to be very thin, or soft enough, like rubber or vinyl tube, so that the clamp can force it tight around the fitting. PEX is too stiff. It takes a crimp ring, with the leverage of those long handles, to create enough squeeze to be effective.
 

Construct30

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They do make tools for close quarters for crimp rings, buy one. I do like the Wirsbo system because of tight areas.

I don't know if the post about cheap expansion fittings was talking about Wirsbo, but if it was, Wirsbo is one of the best PEX systems out there, when installed properly, take their class.

I use both systems and don't mind either, buy the correct tools and do the job according to the manufacturer's specs. We end up, sometimes, with people saying a product is no good because of improper installation. Don't think you can just start using a new peoduct without first learning a little about it. Take a class or at least read a book or web site.

What you are trying to do by making a connection without using the proper fitting is just plain nuts. You will be back on later moaning about how PEX is a bad product.

The pipe comming in from you well is different pipe, not PEX, some kind of PB... apples to oranges!

Never use a hose clamp on PEX. Always use the correct fitting.
 
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Verdeboy

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Generally speaking, the correct-sized hose connector with the correct-sized hose will make a tight seal even without the hose clamp. The main purpose of the hose clamp is to prevent the hose from blowing out under pressure.

Since you are trying to clamp a smoothe, hard surface to another smoothe, hard surface, you may run into trouble a) getting a good seal and, b) preventing blow-out under high pressure.

In underground sprinkler systems, we do use hose clamps on the harder, poly tubing, but we use standard hose connectors, which bite into this tubing to make a good seal. And, if one should fail, it's outside and won't flood out your basement or living room.
 
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Bill Arden

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The copper fitting is barbed, but it had some defects that needed to be rounded off. A quick bench test showed that the hose clamp would make a seal since the barbs stretch the tubing to begin with, but it does not cause the plastic to flow into the valleys. Heating the pipe with a paint stripper would help, but I am worried that would weaken the connection due to the high temperature.

The problem is that I made the 3/4 to 1/2 manifold with a 2-1/4 spacing. This leaves only about 1-1/4 between the 1/2 barrier PEX. This is too small of a space for the tool at at Men*rds.

>They do make tools for close quarters for crimp rings, buy one.

Where?

Another option is to use "Compression Fitting Connections" with a metal inner sleeve that don't need a tool. But that would require that I re-make the manifolds and valve assembly's.

http://www.pexsupply.com/Pex_tools_connection.asp
Quote- "Note: SSC connections can't be made for PEX-AL-PEX Tubing"
 
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For a worm gear clamp to work the material being clamped has to be very thin, or soft enough, like rubber or vinyl tube, so that the clamp can force it tight around the fitting. PEX is too stiff. It takes a crimp ring, with the leverage of those long handles, to create enough squeeze to be effective.
Thanks for explaining that "no hose clamps" statement, I plan to use PEX for my submersible, which is hung on the bottom of the 2" gal steel drop pipe for the windmill, i.e. the PEX will not support the pump, plan to use standard brass barbed fittings with SS clamps, have already mounted on a the end, used heat gun... heated until changed to almost clear, slipped on barbed connector, I haven't tightend it down yet, but will re-heat it when I do. Do you see a problem with my plan?

Rancher
 

Construct30

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Go on **** and/or do an internet search. You will find the close quarter crimp tool. Here's one http://www.wantasub.com/crimpingtools.html I have one even smaller than this one, but it will give you the idea, a clamp style crimp tool.

You should do the job correct, a home made fix will cause you problems. You have the advice what you do with it is your decision. We are not there and can not see what you are trying to do. Do some more plumbing and move the pipe out of there. What is the barbed PEX fitting connected to?
 

Bill Arden

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Thanks for explaining that "no hose clamps" statement, I plan to use PEX for my submersible, which is hung on the bottom of the 2" gal steel drop pipe for the windmill, i.e. the PEX will not support the pump, plan to use standard brass barbed fittings with SS clamps, have already mounted on a the end, used heat gun... heated until changed to almost clear, slipped on barbed connector, I haven't tightened it down yet, but will re-heat it when I do. Do you see a problem with my plan?
Rancher

From my bench tests it's best to heat, connect, and then clamp all at one time since it's really hard to heat the plastic all the way threw once it's on a barbed connector.

You also don't want to heat the PEX up any hotter than you have to since this will degrade the plastic.

>What is the barbed PEX fitting connected to?

In my case I am connecting the three PEX lines that come up from the concrete floor to a manifold which a 3/4 copper pipe connects to.
A second set of three PEX lines then connect to a manifold with valves.

I'm going to check and see if the other "big box" stores have a smaller crimper to rent.
I just can't justify spending $100's on a crimper for 6 crimped ends.
 

Seaneys

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I've used these in a few places around my house where I have a tight clearance. They appear to be very solid. You's just need to get in an end wrench / crescent wrench.

Steve


The copper fitting is barbed, but it had some defects that needed to be rounded off. A quick bench test showed that the hose clamp would make a seal since the barbs stretch the tubing to begin with, but it does not cause the plastic to flow into the valleys. Heating the pipe with a paint stripper would help, but I am worried that would weaken the connection due to the high temperature.

The problem is that I made the 3/4 to 1/2 manifold with a 2-1/4 spacing. This leaves only about 1-1/4 between the 1/2 barrier PEX. This is too small of a space for the tool at at Men*rds.

>They do make tools for close quarters for crimp rings, buy one.

Where?

Another option is to use "Compression Fitting Connections" with a metal inner sleeve that don't need a tool. But that would require that I re-make the manifolds and valve assembly's.

http://www.pexsupply.com/Pex_tools_connection.asp
Quote- "Note: SSC connections can't be made for PEX-AL-PEX Tubing"
 

Seaneys

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I just had a strange flashback... Doesn't ******* also sell a small crimper that you work by tightening 2 bolts. I'm not sure it will fit, but I recall looking at it when I was trying to solve my problem..

I've used these in a few places around my house where I have a tight clearance. They appear to be very solid. You's just need to get in an end wrench / crescent wrench.

Steve
 

Raucina

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I have done a few radiant heat systems in California before pex was legal for potable, and so the expand system was not available and only insert brass barbs could be used. I used a fantastic SS clamp, OETIKER, 360' seal, Graingers part # 4e571 . These can be succesfully closed with standard pincers, such as for tile or end nippers without any special compound tool needed. Hundred of joints hot for years and not a single leak.

I think the radiant websites also sell these clamps with fittings, and say you need their tool, but experience for me says not.
 

Verdeboy

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That is so cool with your status as "Banned", yet you are still able to post.
 

Bill Arden

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FYI: I've Completed my "Bench tests" of using a hose clamp on PEX.

Here is what I have found.

1. By using heat, from a paint stripper, I was able to get the PEX to mold itself into the grooves. This eliminates the possibility of the PEX popping off and flooding the place.

2. The hose clamp does NOT clamp with enough force and with even enough pressure to guarantee that the joint won't develop small leaks over time due to thermal cycling. (Drip, drip, drip)

Alternate options that could to work.
1. Use a small ring compressor. (I am still looking for that unnamed ******* store.) (Does it start with a "M" ?)
2. Use a ring designed to be closed using a pair of wire cutters. (See earlier post)
3. Slide a brass compression fitting over the pex and tighten it so that the brass squashes the PEX on to the barbed fitting.
4. Scrap what I have and switch to push-type Shark connectors.

Edit: This place has ends that don't need tools.
http://www.houseneeds.com/shop/heatingproducts/radiantheating/safelink/safelink34inchbuy.asp
 
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