Hiding a dishwasher air gap?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by peterloron, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. peterloron

    peterloron New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Issaquah
    Hello. We're remodling our kitchen, including a new sink and countertop. My wife absolutely loathes the currently installed countertop airgap for the dishwasher. I know the UPC indicates an airgap must be used, however I've seen discussion elsewhere about local codes being different, etc.

    Any pointers to what the regulations are in Issaquah and what options I have for this? Will a high loop in the DW drain line suffice?

    Thanks!
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,118
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Washington State uses the UPC code which needs an air gap.
    It's purpose to to keep the water "clean" in the dishwasher. Is that important to her?
    If an inspector looks at it, it will be needed.
    In most other states, you can high loop it in the cabinet area.
    Sometimes in Washington, a plumber will install the air gap for the inspector and then replace it with an air gap after inspection.

    Frankly, it's just a little cap on the counter though.
    It reminds me of dating. If a man leaves one or two visible things on a bathroom counter, maybe it's a shaving cream can; that can be a deal breaker.

    A woman can have twenty things on the counter and it looks neat and tidy, but if she sees something out of place, something that isn't hers, then something must be done. A man learns to hide things like razors and shaving cream. And then a plumbing inspector makes the bad mistake of putting an air gap in the womans world; her domain you might say.

    Dear..........what the heck is this chrome cap doing amid all my pots and pans, spatulas, can openers, brushes and coffee things? This one thing that I don't understand is putting me near my breaking point. Please remove this ugly chrome cap from my sight, or you're going to have a rough week.

    Some people get dishwashers with water heating to sterilize the water.

    More on messy kitchens here

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  3. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,811
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    We also use the UPC here, but I "may" have installed one or two air gaps in the 36 years I have been in this area.

    Arizona
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2012
  4. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    "local" codes can never be LESS restrictive than the higher jurisdiction. Your city code cannot trump a county or state code.
  5. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,305
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    How does California State get away with breaking Federal laws ???
  6. Cookie

    Cookie .

    Messages:
    5,658
    Location:
    .
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2012
  7. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,305
    Location:
    Houston, TX
  8. Cookie

    Cookie .

    Messages:
    5,658
    Location:
    .
    shucks, lol.
  9. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,305
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I think that code is made for having a Dishwasher and Garbage disposal connect to the same drain, That is stupid anyway.

    I am no plumber, as you can tell. And will never own a Garbage disposal.

    And a automatic dishwasher will NEVER come close to getting the dishes clean. At best it just sterilizes the food stuck to the dishes. Nothing like a dish rag and some work to make them really clean. People have become Lazy.


    Having some Common sense helps...
  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,118
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    A modern dishwasher will get the dishes much cleaner then hand cleaning. You're washing multiple times with the H-Temp water setting, using less water. I can't get them this clean by hand washing.
    The Engergyguide is $23.00 for a year. That's 6.3 cents a day if you're using a natural gas water heater.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  11. Cookie

    Cookie .

    Messages:
    5,658
    Location:
    .
    I like paper plates. lol.
  12. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    I have been called a Luddite, but donl is right up there!
    First, the most convenient and for other reasons, the preferred way to drain a dishwasher is into the disposer. Second, a sink full of dirty dishes and a nice slimey rag! Sheesh!! Modern dishwashers get dishes clean AND sanitary, AND use far less water than hand washing in the sink.

    The air gap will be debated, especially today when some machines have a built in hi-loop.

    I remember reading here once about a special "seattle air gap" set up. Perhaps someone will have a diagram of that!

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2012
  13. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,305
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Buy Clear Glass Dishes, use them normally , then wash them in your automatic dishwasher.

    Look at the results, Then get back with me.

    I could be wrong, But new energy saving units are worse than the older ones.

    You can not get something for nothing.


    P.S. I have a Automatic Dishwasher. I tell my girl that the dishes need washed, And she washes them automatically.

    That is as good as it gets.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  14. Cookie

    Cookie .

    Messages:
    5,658
    Location:
    .
    I would tell you to go wash them, lol.

    Look at the buy on paper plates, 100 for 99cents. You save on water, gas, electricity, dish soap, man or ...woman power, and, you don't even need to purchase a dishwasher or a sink. Works for me. :)

    You can get fancy. You can get Thanksgiving day ones, with nice pictures of turkeys, and Xmas, an array of things, from santas with his team of horses, to snowflakes.

    Valentines day, St. Paddy's day, birthday's, anniversaries, their is absolutely no reason not to use paper plates.

    And, they are biodegradable, and do not pollute the water systems. This is the best you will get, and they look great stacked and displayed in your china. :)

    ...and, you will never need a repairman or get chapped hands. And, when company is coming, clean-up is a cinch. Plastic folks and cups, are an added pleasure.

    Life is always, a picnic and you can't get better than that!
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  15. bluebinky

    bluebinky Member

    Messages:
    405
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    For or against dishwasher argument aside, I've seen filtered water dispensers integrated with an air-gap, but to me it's debatable if they looked any better.

    Has anyone seen a faucet with a built-in air gap? Done right, that would be a winner to me...
  16. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,358
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    The reason your clear glassware come out with spots is you are not using Jet Dry. I use Finish which has a Jet Dry tablet built in, but I also use the liquid in the dispenser. No spots ever. We do give the dishes a quick preprinse even if it is not really necessary a probably is a waste of water, but there is never any crud left in the bottom of the DW. Also we do not have a disposal by choice. Never have had a clogged DW or a clogged sink in 40 years. (Not the same DW. I have always used a high loop, also without problems. I was unaware that Washington required an air gap until I read Terry's comment. Guess I won't sweat it after this long.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  17. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    What federal law? There are no "federal" laws on plumbing. Coming soon however, a federal low lead spec
  18. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,305
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    From what I have seen, it is more than water spots, Takes some doing to get it cleaned off. Pasta seems to be a big culprit.

    The pre-rinsing need is another thing, If you have to wash them before you put them in the dishwasher, Why not just wash them by hand ?
  19. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,225
    Location:
    Maine
    I have a dishwasher. Had her for about 25 years now. She does a pretty good job most of the time. If I replace here with one of them new fangled electric ones then I'm gonna have to spend time talking to her.

    I think Souix Chief but maybe not, but I know someone makes one that mounts under the counter. Maine goes by the UPC but they are happy with a high loop and so am I.
  20. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,129
    Location:
    New England
    With most modern DW, there is no need to prerinse. If you are the type to take days to do a full load, then most all of them have a built-in prerinse cycle that gets rid of the crud. Using it saves water. The better ones also have photo sensors in them that looks at the wash water and stops when it stops seeing crud moving by, which saves on water and speeds up the cycle if it can. Add that to the built-in heater that can come on to help sanitize and dry the dishes, and you'll find that they do NOT have food particles and are much more sanitary than washing them in the sink by hand. To get these results, you have to load the thing properly so the jets can reach everything. Letting things like spoons or forks 'spoon' in the rack will not allow it to clean them properly, but it's easy to avoid.

    With a functioning air gap, there's no chance that you could ever end up with dirty water backing up into the DW...that's the reason for the air gap. Especially if you use the tailpiece built into a GD, if it was clogged, the thing acts like a pump, and high loop or not, it could pump waste into your DW. Now, if you didn't notice, you might try to use those dishes only to end up sick. Since that is a rare occasion, few people experience it. But, you are safer when one's installed than without whether you believe it or not.

    The detergent often used in a DW can create a pitting or haze on some stuff, but most of that stuff is not listed as safe in a DW in the first place. If you follow the manufactuer's instructions, your dishes will be cleaner and you'll use less water (and energy) in the process.
Similar Threads: Hiding dishwasher
Forum Title Date
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Hiding in the Joist Bay Jul 24, 2007
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice At wit's end regarding icemaker and dishwasher lines Saturday at 1:14 PM
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Dishwasher tie in? See diagram photo Oct 6, 2014
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Help - Dishwasher + Ice Maker Drain hookup Oct 1, 2014
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Dishwasher Drain Suggestons???? Sep 29, 2014

Share This Page