hidden plumbing trap

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Peter D

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Hi everyone...

I just ripped out a nearly 50 year old basement shower I built when I was still a 26 year old newbie. The base tray was formed out of high density, nicely sloping concrete poured directly onto the basement concrete floor. My arms still hurt from separating one from the other and there was certainly never a leak. The pan was tiled with the tile GLUED down! Never leaked either. Couldn’t get them off; one of the reasons to remove the entire pan. The simple brass floor drain, soldered to the builder installed copper drain pipe, was embedded in the high density concrete, no leaks there either. What finally went after all this time was the tiled walls; no concrete wallboard, no Schluter products...!

The shower drain, as roughed in by the builder, at the time was left rising out of the finished basement floor by about 6 inches, capped with a piece of sheet copper.

Given this presentation of the original rough in, I would today conclude that a trap was installed at the connection to the waste water plumbing (inaccessible under the concrete floor slab of the basement). Anyhow, as a newbie at the time, I went and tore up the concrete floor at the rough in stub and installed a copper pipe trap. Ever since, now and then, the water would pool in the shower until my size 13 foot would stomp on the drain to release a big air bubble more than likely hiding in a double trapped pipe.

So, the big question, since I’ve now removed the existing drain and trap and have a fairly good sized hole in the original basement floor to centre the drain in the new bigger shower, do you have an (inexpensive) idea about how to test the drain for that (hopefully existing) trap a good 8+ feet downstream from the shower drain? I was getting kind of tired of stomping on the drain for all and sundry users of the shower…

Peter
 
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Peter D

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Actually not a reply but a P.S.

A couple of minutes ago I had a rare flash of intelligence breaking through. Went to look at where the drain was likely to connect to the waste stack. It’s under the basement stairs inside a still open sidewall. Found a copper pipe coming out of the floor connected to the main vent stack. Sure looks like viable evidence for trap venting. Will think some more…seems that some of the brain cells are still active!

Peter
 

Peter D

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Terry, the drain isn't blocked, it always evacuated the pooled waste water after the air bubble was released with my size 13s.

My concern was that I had originally double trapped the drain pipe.

Now that I have removed the shower drain and it's trap I want to confirm my suspicion that the builder had already installed a trap at the downstream connection to the home's waste water piping when he built the original shower rough-in. If that's the case then I will not need to install the new shower drain with another trap under it which will double trap the system again and probably cause the same air block I have found to happen before. So, any idea how to test for that builder installed, hidden under the concrete floor, 8 foot + distant, unconfirmed trap without ripping up floors or snaking in a high tech camera?


I will follow your advice though, just to make sure that there is no gunk in that pipe before I connect the new drain.
 

Jadnashua

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The trap for a shower should be directly underneath the drain. Otherwise, any crud that builds up on the walls of the pipe would be open to the room, and could become rather nasty.

As Terry said, if you run a snake down the line, it should become obvious if there's a trap there. If it is a straight run to the waste stack, you'll have no resistance pushing the snake through that much. If there's a trap in there, you'll find some resistance as it tries to go around the trap.

40+ year old copper, burried in the ground, could be fine, and then again, it could be rotten. All depends on the soil chemistry and what you put down that drain over the years.
 

Cacher_Chick

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I might be going out on a limb here, but in these parts all the 50+ year old houses have drum traps for their tubs and showers. If that were the case, you wouldn't get a snake through one, but there should be an accessible cleanout in the floor.
 

Hackney plumbing

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Terry, the drain isn't blocked, it always evacuated the pooled waste water after the air bubble was released with my size 13s.

My concern was that I had originally double trapped the drain pipe.

Now that I have removed the shower drain and it's trap I want to confirm my suspicion that the builder had already installed a trap at the downstream connection to the home's waste water piping when he built the original shower rough-in. If that's the case then I will not need to install the new shower drain with another trap under it which will double trap the system again and probably cause the same air block I have found to happen before. So, any idea how to test for that builder installed, hidden under the concrete floor, 8 foot + distant, unconfirmed trap without ripping up floors or snaking in a high tech camera?


I will follow your advice though, just to make sure that there is no gunk in that pipe before I connect the new drain.

Now that you have cut the trap off,remove any cap your sealing the pipe with and turn on a fixture close by......see if you can hear water flowing where you cut your trap off.

If you can hear water splashing/flowing in the pipe then theres no trap thats providing a seal. Check it out and see.
 
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Peter D

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Thanks, I looked for that clean out...there's one on the toilet waste stack, nothing on the copper piping rising from the floor and connected to the vent stack.
 

Peter D

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Thanks Jadnashua, copper looks pretty good where I cut off the trap, just a little spotty green patina here and there. Unfortunately I think the trap would be right at the waste water stack and the snake dead ending could be either or. I might yet wind up breaking concrete and digging where the copper vent stack comes up.
 
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