helping my dad this weekend...

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by chris fox, Oct 11, 2009.

  1. chris fox

    chris fox New Member

    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    near phoenix AZ
    my dad needed a little help preping for a grout job in a hall bathroom. New tile and new fxtures, he decided to replace the older Moen shower/bath fixtures for a new updated Kohler setup.
    With new tile up and ready for grout I had to stop him for moving forward - the new fixture just isnt going to mount on. I consider myself a novice DIY plumber and havent tackled a retro fit job like this.

    So my questions are:
    1. How much room should I leave around the new control valve?
    2. The control valve has 4 threaded ports, where will I get my play for adjustment? to the shower and tub spouts since there wont be much movement from hot/cold lines?
    3.pipe dope or teflon tape for the threaded connection? MAP gas heat will affect this?
    4. How much room should I leave on all 4 lines for soldering in new control valve? this ties back to question #1 - I dont want to remove toom any tiles but want to have some leeway?
    5. The existing Moen valve have the hot/cold set back about 3/4" off center from the shower/tub lines whereas the Kohler have all 4 lines in the same plane/distance? Will this matter? THinking the shower and bath copper lines will flex?

    thanks in advance...
    Chris
  2. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    You will have a very difficult time installing a new valve throught the access hole in the tile. Don't mean to pick on you, but this should have been thought about and accomplished BEFORE putting up tile. It will also be very difficult to secure the new valve to braces/brackets so it cannot move around.

    Your only "out" here is if you have access to the other side of that wall, such as in a hallway, a bedroom wall or closet. It is a simple matter to patch drywall, and larger patches are easier than small ones. Cut a 16" square or so hole.

    No matter how this is done, remember this: you will have the water main shut off, so when the fire breaks out on the drywall paper, you can't just pee on it! Have extinquishers and pails of water standing by!
  3. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,286
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    valve

    Too many unknowns to even try to answer you. My first comment would be that using a Kohler valve is NEVER an upgrade from anything. Second is that the plastic spacer tells you the size of hole, AND where to position it in the wall. Do not depend on "flexibility" to position it. You have to install the piping so the lines arrive at the valve where they are supposed to be. Some valves need adapters, and others do not. I think your valve is one that does not, if the copper tubing slides into the ports.
  4. chris fox

    chris fox New Member

    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    near phoenix AZ
    thanks for the replies....I know I was concerned that he wanted to do this after the tile was up. The week before the Moen control was fine and was the one they were going to use. Its one of these deals where older gold fixtures are being replaced with brushed nickel fixtures.

    I feel bad since he did a great job on the tile work and removing a good portion of this side of the wall will be the only option then dealing with the Kedri. The opposing wall is an exterior entry way - not an option.

    Also, we tried replacing a Moen with a new Moen but there were too many changes to mix match parts. Anyone have luck with mix matching parts like this?

    thanks for the replies...
    Chris
  5. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    You will not be able to change the type of Moen. If you have a pull-out, that will be it, and if you have a posi-temp ( turn to operate) that's that. You WILL be able to find some brushed nickle trim to fit just about any Moen valve. Take your old parts with you to a good plumbing store ( not necessarily HD) .
  6. chris fox

    chris fox New Member

    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    near phoenix AZ
    thansk Jimbo and HJ
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