Help with 1 1/4 chromed lav sink/vanity drain set up

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Rao, May 18, 2014.

  1. Rao

    Rao New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Friends,
    Thanks in advance for any help on this. This work needs to be code and sensible as I am selling this unit and it will inspected. Questions essentially comes down to if two 90 degree in a hand washing sink are allowed.

    I have remodeled a small half bath in my place. The plumbing seemed fine for the vanity I had picked so other than installing new 1/4 stops on h/c and toilet supply I left as is when I rehung walls. So my drain remains a 1 12 pvc with p trap on a swing-able lower part of the p trap.

    I ran into the problem that the old 22" vanity there when I bought the place was not in code by a long shot in terms of proximity to the toilet (it was 11 inches from center-line, not 15), meaning the new vanity I had picked as a replacement was a no-go.

    with a limit of 18 inches wide, my wife found and bought a a nice vanity set with granite top and vessel sink at a good price online. the drain hole placement for this vessel is well foreword n the vanity and it has a frosted glass door. The glass door incline me to use chrome, and the placement of the drain incline me to use chromed instead of pcv.

    The sink came with a popup drain to a brass thread piece, to a chrome piece femail threaded on upper end and an extension like piece about 12 inches long with a flange on one end. it also came with what looks like a a custom p trap. Using the included pe trap, which gives me a short drop to 90 degrees back , which is what I want would look dumb with two p-traps for a single sink.

    Q 1) I would prefer to use a 90 degree slip joint elbow about 3" below drain to create a horizontal straight back toward wall, and then a second 90 slip joint elbow to create vertical down to the p trap which I can turn to be flat against the wall. This will give me optimum space inside this small vanity and will also allow use of the included shelf, and have only chrome visible through the frosted glass. I see Ikea setups with even less of a drop from the sink to 90 degrees horizontal. Is this allowed by code? Does it look "hacky?" I seem to double 90 degree offset on pcv on ADA compliant lav sinks (for wheelchair access) but I have not seen one in chrome

    My other alternative is to use a 1 1/4 chrome "double 45 degree offset". this will necessitate me cutting into the shelf of the vanity so I would prefer not.

    Q 2) this sink has a popup and no secondary drain. Is there a universal or easy way to disable pop up stoppers? (the drain is no name so I cant check a site). I assume disable pop up would be ok by code. I don't want to remove the actually stopper center piece since I would just have a hole. I just want to lock it in the elevated position.

    Thanks!
    powderroomvanity.jpg



    Refs:
    if I use two 90's I assume it would be these: http://www.****.com/itm/1-1-4-SLIP-...406?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ecff17c9e

    if double 45 offset: http://www.****.com/itm/New-Keeney-...166?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abda45fd6


    pcv 90 used for ada which suggests two 90s are allowed?: http://www.****.com/itm/Truebro-Lav...ir-Strainer-Assembly-105W-White-/121144269668
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,416
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]

    I prefer to use a trap like this. For the vertical, you can use a longer threaded 1-1/4" tail piece, or a 1-1/2" extension.
    I like to aim the trap to the tailpiece.
    Are you meaning to 90 over to it?

    The offset with two 45 bends is meant to be cut to size. I normally only use one end.
  3. Rao

    Rao New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Hey Terry
    Thanks.
    A couple of problems with that. I don't know if you can see but the collar piece connecting the drain pipe from the wall to the first 90 degree down has only abut a quarter inch if I cut it. so I cant add anything there. I think I am ok with the trap as is . I don't want to use the bottle trap because I don't want a hassle with inspection.

    I don't have more than 24" down or 24" vertical, which seem to be the code for distances s I am seem ok with the trap where it is.

    As you can see the sink drain is right in front of the vanity due to the placement of the vessel. so I want first sections f drain to be chrome (as door is frosted glass) and for them to go back to the rear of vanity as early as possible (to preserve room and not have drain pipe running down front of most of vanity) . With two 90s, the first being about 3" below the drain this would work well visually and with the most usable space. If you think that might cause problems or code violations as a second I would go with a 45 degree double offset to get above trap



    first pic with two 90 chrome slips going from front of vanity, down about 3", and then straight backward toward wall). I prefer it this for utlity. Second idea is with a double 45 offset chrome slooping toward back wall and off to left toward p trap. And if I went with 45 offset I would buy a straight slip as well so I could cut and splice the offset
    90.jpg 45.jpg

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 18, 2014
  4. Rao

    Rao New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Washington DC
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,416
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You can offset with 90's
    They do that sometimes with handicap lavs.

    Also, you may have noticed I'm not a big fan of linking to other shopping carts.
    But you can click on my ads anytime. :)
    Last edited: May 18, 2014
  6. Rao

    Rao New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Hey Terry,
    sorry for the links. I was jus looking for demonstration pics. I am not any kind of vendor pitching anything, you can see that from the links being from all over the place. I was just using google image to try and provide examples of possible solutions and parts used.

    When I looked at your shopping section it dealt mainly with toilets. If you have a vendor for piping and chrome slip joints I could post pics and links from what I do eventually use when finished
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,795
    Location:
    IL
    huge2.JPG The offset tailpiece Rao was referring to.
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,247
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    IF you use 90s, and they would not be my first choice, you want to use " 1/4" "flush ells" which are a 90 with a straight section of tubing that you cut to size. With the double 45 offset, you also cut the straight tubing, but then you put the two ends together, to make the desired offset and have a smooth tube to connect to the trap
  9. Rao

    Rao New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Washington DC
    OK, I have the offset 45 degree double slip 1 1/4 and some other parts.
    Does the following look good? Any glaring issues?

    bath1a.jpg
    note 1: I will cut this threaded tail from sink drain about 1 inch to give me 4 inches before first 45
    note 2 and 3: I will replace bottom branch of p trap and use a new slip made specifically for 1 1/4 and insert about 2 to 3" of 1 1/4 chromed brass between brass slip and pvc slip

    bath1b.jpg
    This is rough dry fit with shelf. Shelf is not fixed but floats on side pegs for easy removal. I will cut a U-shaped notch about 2 wide and 4" deep for transit of waste pipe to p trap underneath shelf
  10. Rao

    Rao New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Here is what got me into this problem. This was a simple revamp and re-tile with planned replacement of vanity and toilet wiht same dimensional items . So my plumbing consisted of replacing old multi-turn valves with new quarter turn stops on the sink and toilet supplies, and insuring toilet flange was in good shape (it was excellent.).

    Each task has a nightmare, and in this case it was finding my 1980's vanity was 22 inches wide leaving me 12" to center-line of toilet, instead of 15 (it is 15 to the wall). This killed my planned same as existing dimensions vanity. My wife nixed a pedestal, but after finding out that 18-19" vanities were a very expensive specialty proposition I was lucky (maybe) to find one on the net at a good price ($380 shipped for vanity, granite top, sink and plumbing). My only problem was the drain hole line coming from the granite being very far forward, and the door being glass as well. the unit shipped with a bottle, which is not really good for my existing rough in. By the time I had found the vanity I had re-installed walls.

    here is where I am so far. Everything cool except the drain, which I hope is ok with this double 45 offset.
    bath1c.jpg
    FYI toilet is not caulked on back 1/3, which I learned to avoid here on Terry's site
    Last edited: May 21, 2014
  11. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,247
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    I do NOT like "backwards" slip joints. I would have cut the straight tube and then put the two halves back together with the flow going in the right direction. I would have drilled a round hole in the shelf for the pipe to go through. "From Terry's site" you should have learned to install the toilet so it does not leak, then you could caulk the entire perimeter of the toilet.
  12. Rao

    Rao New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Washington DC
    HJ,

    Thanks.

    As you can see nothing is assembled yet. they are just dry fit pics. So if I get you right, I cut that 45 double ended offset in half and and swap one end around so that all the slips are pointing in the direction of flow to prevent catching anything int the joint? This will look slightly hackier (an extra cut section), but will actually be better since all slips will be pointing in right direction. Is that right? My only concern is it is additional cut section and it also pulls the lower vertical further forward, since the cut and slip would reduce the length by an inch or so. There is room to swing the p-trap further forward, I just wanted things furthest back possible

    I see your point on flow direction, but it does raise the question as to what all the double slip 45 and 90 elbows and double slip straight joiners in pvc and brass are actually for in 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 if they cant be used in drains!

    Alternately I could go with 90 "ells", but that does give me two 90 degree bends and a horizontal section before the trap. This might however look more conventional due to using conventional pieces. I do see two 90's in virtually all double kitchen sink set ups, with one sink getting a 90 at the drain and turning 90 a second time into the the main sink drain. Just have not seen it on a conventional lav sink



    I am more in favor of cutting a u-shaped notch in the shelf because that makes it shelf easier to pull out and look at. A hole int he shelf , which although cleaner looking might make it a bit difficult to look at the plumbing for the next owner. A hole means they have to disassemble drain run to take out shelf and at the drain, while with a u-shaped cut they can slip the shelf out without dis-assembly of drain run.

    On the toilet I have read here on this site Terry and other plumbers recommending caulking the front half to 2/3 only. I did take special care with the toilet as I have several finished floors below. The flange was in perfect shape, level, good elevation, well cleaned, and I dry fitted it and dropped it down straight on the wax with my kid. I did use the tiniest bit of shim due to a tile being set a tiny bit lower, it is all perfectly level and perfectly set. Looking at the site I see that some plumbers here insisting on 2/3 and some insisting on the whole thing. I now see the two different methods are due to two completely different code rules on that in different parts of the country (some forbidding a full caulk, some mandating full caulk). I used polyseam, so it will be easy to pull out and re-do once I confirm the exact code in my area. Thanks for the heads up.

    Again thank you for your advice and I look forward to your thoughts on my alternatives
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  13. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,247
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; This will look slightly hackier

    Not as hacked as an upside down slip joint. If you cut "close" to one of the 45s, so you have a very short "tailpiece" you won't lose any length. The amount of offset will depend on WHERE you make the cut. The least offset will be if you cut it in the middle. They CAN be used in drain lines, but they make a very "wobbly" installation.
  14. Rao

    Rao New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Is brass 1 1/4 extension a fluted end to a slip considered a "slip nut joint" since it is not "slipping" in? the codes I can find online seems to indicate this is not considered a slip as it is much more stable and does not create a rim collecting waste water. And looking at "in code" bottle traps elsewhere that is exactly how the connection is outbound: a brass nut to a flanged or fluted pipe.

    Does using that fluted piece (with appropriate bushing that came with it for same surface to surface connection at bottle trap), and which would be the final connection going into the p trap slip be ok?

    EG:

    bath2].jpg

    bath3b.jpg
    Last edited: May 23, 2014
  15. Rao

    Rao New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Washington DC
    All assembled, no leaks, two slips in total. I went with hole in shelf as HJ recommended. everything is rigid and well supported. By the way the drain was a tiny bit slower than I wanted (holding its own on full force warm)on first test with the pop up drain that came with it.. I wanted to replace the pop up anyway since the sink has no overflow drain hole. I saw some non closing drains with holes in the top (grid?), but for once in my life I got some good advice from one of the orange borg workers, and they had an inexpensive <$20 Danco drain that has an umbrella which does not lock down. This drain works extremely well and breaking the vacuum and drains very very quickly (both warm and cold full force plus additional water poured in concurrently, draining down much faster than entering).

    Thanks to everyone for their advice
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