Help Program Cole and Massey

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by rookws, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. rookws

    rookws New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Missouri
    I apologize in advance if this info is already out there but I can't find it and that is why I'm here. Like many others I recently purchased a house and I quickly realized I know nothing about water softeners.

    But this is what I do know:

    I have a Cole and Massey water softener that has a separate brine tank from the resin tank. The rated service flow is at 4 GPM. It has a digital display with 4 buttons: up/down arrows, program, and extra cycle.

    Now when I hold the Program button in for about 5 seconds it takes me to a screen that starts w/a H followed by a number such as "H------29". I assume this is my Hardness setting? It ranges from 1 - 128. Then if I hit the program button again I get a time setting and right now it's at 2:00 AM. After I hit Program button again I'm back to my current time being displayed which switches back and forth from current time to volume remaining.

    Finally to my question: How do I program this thing? At the moment I haven't done a water test to see where I am at so I won't have all the information you may need. Right now I'm just wondering how to set this thing up once I do have all the information.

    Any suggestions will be much appreciated. Thanks for you help.
  2. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    They used to have a highly proprietary Fleck 5600 but it sounds as if you may have a 5600 with an SE timer. Go to
    www.Fleckcontrols.com and look at some pictures to find out what valve and timer you have.

    Then get hardness, iron and pH tests if you are on your own well, if not get the highest hardness data from the water company's web site and use it.

    Then you need to tell us what size softener you have by measuring the width and height of the resin tank or looking for a model number on a label on the straight sides of the tank; a model 948 means 9' x 48" tank and that is a 1.0 cuft softener.

    Then tell us how many permanent residents live in the house.
  3. rookws

    rookws New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Missouri
    Thanks for the response. I will gather the information as soon as I can and then update you.
  4. rookws

    rookws New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Missouri
    I have uploaded a couple of picks of the head unit. We are on well water and there are only two adults in the house. I won't be able to test the water until tonight so hopefully I'll have the results to you by tomorrow.

    Attached Files:

  5. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,483
    Location:
    Alaska
    The good old 6600 from Fleck...
    There are two levels of programing.
    There is a hidden bottom that needs to be pushed for entering the sub level.
  6. rookws

    rookws New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Missouri
    Aw, a Fleck 6600...good to know.

    Here are my results:

    Iron: 0
    Hardness: 25 grains or 425 ppm (I would say it's a smidge on the lighter side of 25 grains but definitely more than 15 grains)

    I just realize my test packet didn't include a pH test.

    NOTE: The resin tank measurements are approximates

    The height of my resin tank is 44'' and the diameter is 27''.

    With that said. Is there a rough estimate that you can provide me to go off of for my settings?
  7. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Are you sure the resin tank DIAMETER is 27"? I think that you may have provided the circumference rather than the diameter and that the diamter is probably 9".
  8. rookws

    rookws New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Missouri
    Of course...the diameter is 9". Sorry about that.
  9. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Or 8". Typical tank sizes are 8x44 and 9x48. An 8x44 typically is loaded with .75 cubic feet of resin and a 9x48 is typically loaded with 1 cubic foot of resin. I suggest you look again for a tag--typically down low or measure carefully using two T-squares to get an accurate diameter.
  10. rookws

    rookws New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Missouri
    Actually it is 8".

    I remeasured and the resin tank is 44" tall and has a 8" diameter.
  11. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    That is a .75 cuft and at 12 lbs salt dose you get the max 24K; that's terrible salt efficiency of 24,000/12 = 2000 grains/lb.. The constant SFR is 6.75 gpm at best. That means that more than 6.75 gpm you don't get all the hardness out of the water.
  12. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Here is a link to the service manual for the Fleck 6600 valve.

    http://www.youfixh2o.com/downloads/(Fleck)6600downflowservicemanual.pdf

    and here are the programming instructions:

    http://www.ohiopurewaterco.com/19107-insert4-01.pdf

    If you want to get more reasonable salt consumption, but with more frequent regenerations, you could program it for a capacity of 15,000 grains and a salt dose of 4.5 lbs--this gives an efficiency of about 3300 grains per lb of salt.

    To program the salt dose you need to know the size of the Brine Line Flow control (BLFC) which will probably be either .25 gpm or .5 gpm. Each gallon of water dissolves 3 lbs of salt so to get a salt dose of 4.5 lbs you need 1.5 gallons of water and if the BLFC is .5 gpm the time for brine fill would be set to 3 minutes (6 minutes if the BLFC is .25 gpm).

    Typically there is a sticker on the back of the valve that lists the size of the BLFC. If there is no sticker you will need to use the manual diagrams to locate the BLFC and physically find it and then use the manual information to identify the size.
  13. rookws

    rookws New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Missouri
    Well it's kind of sad to hear that I don't have the greatest water softener setup but it's what I got and w/all of your help I will set it up the best that I can.
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2010
  14. rookws

    rookws New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Missouri
    My brine tank can easily hold 80lbs of salt so would it be ok to put in 40lbs and set the brine refill to 27 minutes (40/3/.5)?

    Also as far as the backwash and rapid rinse goes will 10 minutes each be ok?
  15. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    You need to keep enough salt in the tank to cover the water. I recommend checking frequently and adding one bag at a time rather than filling the tank with salt because this makes servicing much easier if necessary.

    The salt dose is controlled by the brine fill and brine fill is done with each regeneration. So if you want a salt dose of 4.5 lbs and the BLFC is .5 gpm the brine fill time is 3 minutes.

    I recommend you use the following settings:

    Backwash: 10 min
    Brine/slow rinse: 45 minutes
    Fast rinse: 3 minutes
    Brine fill: 3 minutes (assumes salt dose of 4.5 lbs, capacity of 15K, and BLFC of 0.5 gpm)

    If there is no water in the brine tank now you will need to manually add water before putting the softener in service--enough to bring the level up to the inlet plus water for the first regeneration.

    Because this softener has been out of service and its condition is not known I recommend you do two back to back regenerations at max salt dose to ensure the resin is fully regenerated.

    You can do this by picking a time when there will be no water usage and:

    1. Manually add 4 gallons of water (this is in addition to the water necessary to bring the water level up to the inlet) and wait 3 hours for the brine to form. Do an immediate regeneration.

    2. When the regeneration is complete manually add 2.5 gallons of water (the softener will have added 1.5 gallons), wait 3 hours, then do the second immediate regeneration.
  16. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The backwash is too long for hardness only (no iron) and for a .75 cuft of resin.

    Also, if needed, have you calculated a reserve capacity?

    What if any calendar override should he use?

    The two back to back regenerations must be done with no water use during or between them.

    Two hours is sufficient for the brine refill water to produce brine. Starting the first regen at roughly 7:15pm and you will have the first finished by 9pm+/- add the water to the salt tank and then set the 2nd regen to start at 2am. That reduces the length of time of no water use to just the evening. Rather than adding the refill water by hand (for 12 lbs of salt) you can change the salt dose for 12 lbs (4 gals or 8 minutes) before starting the first regen.
  17. rookws

    rookws New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Missouri
    So here are my current settings:

    Capacity: 19 (base off of 24k max cap. X 80%)...I guess.
    Backwash: 8 minutes
    Brine Draw/Slow Rinse: 50 minutes
    Rapid Rinse: 4 minutes
    Brine Tank Fill: 4 minutes

    Are these settings acceptable or is there a better option?
  18. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    You can't get 24K with 4 minutes of refill time and the lbs of salt that produces. You need 12lbs of salt to get 24K in a 3/4 cuft softener so you have to set the refill time accordingly. But then you get very poor salt efficiency.

    Why a 20% reserve? Why not use one day's total grains? Remember that you have to have the salt dose to get 24K to then have 19K.

    You don't understand how this all goes together yet. Visit the sizing link in my signature.

    Why do you think 8 minutes backwash and 50 minutes of brine draw/slow rinse for a 3/4 cuft softener? Both are too high.
  19. rookws

    rookws New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Missouri
    I have no idea what to think which is why I'm asking.

    These settings are pre-existing. I haven't touched a thing. I just recently learned how to access these settings and some formulas you all gave me. So I'm trying to combine all the information you given and set up this water softener appropriately.

    But I don't want to tweak anything until I feel the settings are feasible which I'm relying on your help for that.
  20. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,483
    Location:
    Alaska
    Those of us that have been dealing with systems for years have different settings for different units. The water around me is not all the same, thus each unit has different settings for the water and people that it is dealing with.
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