Help! Pre-sloped plywood shower pan?

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RandyL1111

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Hi! I've moved into a house that was in the middle of a remodel and one of the things that needs to be handled pronto is the gutted master bath.

First question: There's a sloped plywood shower pan that already exists (photos attached). My question is, rather than the traditional method of sandwiching a membrane between two layers of sloped concrete, does the pre-sloped plywood allow me to skip installing that first sloped layer of concrete and just do the second layer on top of a membrane, following the pre-exiting slope from the wood? Suggestions?

Second question: I'm building a cinder block bench finished with hardy board in the shower too. Does the membrane go under or over the blocks?

I've gone as far as I can go looking up information, but am not finding anything that specifically addresses these two items. Any advise is appreciated!
 

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JohnfrWhipple

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I have seen sloped plywood only pre-slope many times. Do you know how well it's supported? If it is supported well then it should be good to go. Can you post a picture of the rough in drain's position? A close up of how the drain meets the ply.

As for the bench you can build it first or after. Depends on how you plan to finish the waterproofing.

Have you selected your tile? What type of thin-set does the tile need?

Have you selected grout? Try and keep your selections in the same family.
 

JohnfrWhipple

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I'd go with a Noble liner for the base and curb (once you build it). Then your mortar bed. Then Wonderboard Lite topped with Ardex 8+9.

How big is the shower?
 

RandyL1111

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Thanks JW! The shower's 48" x 62.5"

Plywood seems stable - the wife and I did some jumping around to test and nothing moved (not the most scientific test, I know). Here's a pic of the drain (I'm actually not totally sure what kind of drain this is). We haven't selected tile or grout yet. Probably something like the ceramic tiles in the attached photo.

This is my first time doing a shower so your input is incredibly helpful.
 

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JohnfrWhipple

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.... the wife and I did some jumping around to test and nothing moved....

A man after my own heart. Nothing better than jumping around in the shower with your wife! lol Hopefully the kids where asleep...

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I'd be happier seeing some of those screws set a little lower. Are they a good size? Can you pull a few up and measure them? Looks like the drain has some old silicone on it. Is that right?

shower-pan-liner-drain-weep-holes.jpg


Do you have the top collar (shown right) and adjustable strainer (shown left)?
 
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Jadnashua

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There's a technique called a monolithic bench, and if you choose to build it out of cinderblocks and mortar, it must be waterproofed entirely around it, but not itself. It works, but personally, I'd rather waterproof the bench as well. This is much easier to do with a surface waterproofing and waterproof everything.
 

RandyL1111

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JW, are you referring to the screws in the plywood? I pulled one and it's an inch and a half long. What do you think?
The whole thing is one layer of half inch ply, I've read that two layers is better, but not sure I can build it up any higher if the drain is set at that location.
Yes, there is old silicone on the blue ring, and some type of rubber nipple which is sealed over the actual drain.
I don't have the top collar or adjustable strainer (part of a 3 piece drain, correct?) I'm not sure if what I have will work with those. I had planned on taking a picture of the drain to a plumbing supply store today to see what they think, but didn't have time.
Jim, thanks for the advice, I'll look into the monolithic bench.
 

Jadnashua

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What exactly is the buildup with that sloped 1/2" on top? Typically, that would not be suitable base for anything made of mortar. Without cleaning off that drain bottom, it's unlikely you'd get a good seal or find the rest of one that would work.
 

JohnfrWhipple

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Randy the job looks a little suspect.

My gut tells me to take up the plywood and re-evaluate. By plywood I mean the 1/2" pieces that are sloped to the drain. I would bet they are just screwed in place.

The inside of the drain looks filled as well. I think for starters you can try and clean off the silicone, the inside of the drain, remove the plywood layer and decide what to do from there.
 

RandyL1111

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Thanks guys, I'm going to pull up the plywood and start from scratch. I'll keep you posted, I might have some questions along the way.
 

JohnfrWhipple

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Thanks guys, I'm going to pull up the plywood and start from scratch. I'll keep you posted, I might have some questions along the way.

Sound like a better plan. I can see by the post counts that some of the users I have blocked are making posts. I do not read all post by all posters. I have embraced the Ignore Feature on this forum.

If you are starting from scratch then the sky is the limit. To build your new shower (non-steamer) I would be working with my goto products.

NobleSeal CIS or TS for the primary floor and up the walls roughly 8"-12"
Ardex 8+9 on the walls and bench and curb. Lapping the Noble product 8"-12" with SK Mesh

I no longer recommend Schluter.
I no longer recommend Liquid waterproofing.

If you can not find Ardex 8+9 then I would use NobleWallSeal for the walls (non-steamer) set with EXT.

Start by understanding what setting material you have the choice of working with. Make some calls.

Can you find Ardex X5, X32, X77, 8+9?
Can you find Laticrete 254,253,3701?

My recommendations steam from what products you have access too.

Avoid any foam based backer boards. Especially Kerdi Board - this is most likely the single worst shower product I have ever reviewed ... No wait. Ardex AF207 is.
 

ShowerDude

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Is that an old hot mop flange with a bunch of silicone On it? looks to be abs actually......Noble150? LOL hydrobarrier? LOL and it does look like its covered/filled? why is that? surely you verified a proper ptrap venting etc?

this all looks suspect as John stated already........I would not move fwd until you back up a bit. You are about to spend a minimum of thousands of dollars on your project. smart move Take the time now.
 

Jadnashua

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There are conversion drains you may be able to use if you can clean up the base of that clamping drain (that's assuming it is a clamping drain). But, as said, you still need a solid base to build your shower on.

John used to love Schluter products until they called him and explained he was not using them per design nor were his backyard tests relevant to the proper operation of the products. Now, he blasts them any time he can. Certainly, there are other products that work, and work well, but to discount one brand for your biases is kind of infantile.
 
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